TRANSCRIPT
INTERVIEW WITH CHRIS KENNY, SKY NEWS

THURSDAY 18 APRIL 2024

Topics: Terrorism threat in Australia, social cohesion, National Defence Strategy, Defence spending.

E&OE…

CHRIS KENNY: Let me go now to Shadow Defence Minister, Andrew Hastie, who joins us live from Perth. Thanks for joining us, Andrew. I have to ask you, given the police invoking terrorism after this church stabbing in Sydney, do you believe this is the Islamist terrorist threat rising again in this country in a way that ASIO and others have been wanting now for many, many months?

ANDREW HASTIE: Chris, on the face of it, it appears that there is some affiliation with Islamic terrorism. There's no doubt about that based on what we heard that offender say, which you played earlier. But I think the real point is that when ISIS started launching attacks across the world and recruiting young people—particularly in the West—a decade ago, they were using online means to radicalise people and I think we need to be alive to the fact that the internet has not gone away. It is in many ways an ungoverned space, and I'm sure that there's probably a connection between what's online and some of the resurgence in terrorism that we're seeing – not just here in Australia, but elsewhere around the world.

CHRIS KENNY: I want to be very careful in this discussion, but it's a discussion we have to have. I wrote last weekend about the weakness from our authorities and our federal government when it comes to some of the hatred we're seeing in this country, the antisemitism on the back of the Gaza war. We've had people in this country chanting 'death to Jews', or 'where's the Jews', we've had hate preachers celebrating the horrific events of October 7, and our police and our governments have done next to nothing about those attacks on our social cohesion in this country. Are we concerned that that weakness leads to a greater rise of extremism and what should the federal government have done differently?

ANDREW HASTIE: I think political leadership is really important at this point in time. Ever since October 7, we've seen greater social tension in Australia, in fact, I would say since 1901, this is probably the most severe test for Australian social cohesion. We've seen antisemitism, we've seen all sorts of protests, we've seen vile things chanted in the streets about Jewish people, particularly and we've seen a stabbing now on Monday night in a place of worship. So, political leadership is really important because political leadership should give Australians moral clarity and it should also articulate our values. One of those values is tolerance - we need to be able to live peaceably with our neighbours, respect difference and not resort to violence and religious extremism. Anthony Albanese, I think, has been found wanting in this regard. I don't think he's been clear enough since October 7, and he's got to do better because at this point in time, our country really is tense, and people are scared.

CHRIS KENNY: Do you fear for social cohesion in the country, as we speak?

ANDREW HASTIE: I do Chris.

CHRIS KENNY: So how would you address it?

ANDREW HASTIE: I think we just have to be very clear about what is right and what is wrong, what is acceptable behaviour and what is not acceptable. Australian citizenship is a very unique thing, and it carries special obligations. We support the rule of law, we support parliamentary democracy, we support tolerance, we respect one another. There are mutual obligations on citizens and if we don't enforce this, if we don't have our political leaders coming out every day and reminding people of these obligations, then people will do as they see fit. I think there are other ways – of course, law enforcement has to do their job, our intelligence agencies have to do their job – but there's a really important component here for political leaders and I think the Prime Minister needs to do a better job. If you look at Peter Dutton, he's very, very clear about these things. People know where he stands, and I think that's very important.

CHRIS KENNY: We can't be afraid of saying what is right and what is wrong. We can't be morally equivalent about everything. I just want to get you quickly on the big Defence announcement from Richard Marles yesterday. Again, there's very little happening in the here and now. This government is promising stuff 10 years hence. I mean China has had a go at Australia over this, they seem to be the only ones taking the promises seriously.

ANDREW HASTIE: The irony of that did strike me, Chris. Richard Marles says that we're facing the most dangerous strategic circumstances since the end of the Second World War, and then he makes promises that won't be realised for another 10 years – three or four elections away. What he announced yesterday was, effectively, a very modest increase in Defence spending when you consider inflation and foreign exchange fluctuation. Only $5.7 billion over the next four years, and there's also cuts to important capabilities amounting to more than $80 billion when you consider how he is proposing to reprioritise – to use the language of Defence bureaucracy -the Integrated Investment Program. I don't think that Labor is taking this seriously. There were three tests. One, Richard Marles had to articulate the threat seriously and clearly – I don't think he did that. Number two, he had to articulate a strategy clearly to the Australian people. He persists with this notion of 'impactful projection' – I can't tell your viewers what that actually means. And then thirdly, the test was resourcing. Peter Dutton made it very clear to me yesterday before I stepped up at my press conference that the Coalition will commit to the same spending as Labor and more, because we think more investment is important and that's a really important signal to Australian people that we take our national security seriously.

CHRIS KENNY: Andrew Hastie, thanks for joining us. Appreciate it.