THE HON ANDREW HASTIE MP
SHADOW MINISTER FOR DEFENCE
SHADOW MINISTER FOR DEFENCE INDUSTRY
SHADOW MINISTER FOR DEFENCE PERSONNEL
FEDERAL MEMBER FOR CANNING

TRANSCRIPT
INTERVIEW WITH OLIVER PETERSON, 6PR PERTH LIVE

THURSDAY 20 FEBRUARY 2025

Topics: Chinese warships off the coast of Australia, ASIO’s annual threat assessment, President Trump’s comments on Ukraine.

OLIVER PETERSON: Andrew Hastie is the Shadow Defence Minister and he joins me live on 6PR this afternoon. G'day, Andrew.

ANDREW HASTIE: G'day, Oly. How are you?

OLIVER PETERSON: I'm alright. Are you worried? There seems to be talk here from the ASIO Director General that there are more threats that at least he's willing to tell the public about than he has previously.

ANDREW HASTIE: Director General Mike Burgess is a very straight shooting, sober-minded security chief, and when he talks, we should listen. What he's outlined is quite troubling. State sanctioned assassination attempts, state sanctioned plots to steal our defence secrets – particularly AUKUS – state sanctioned attempts to sabotage, plans for sabotage and also cyber attacks. He said that the rules of spying are being rewritten – this is a new time, a new order that's being formed, and it's more dangerous, more aggressive, and it's happening on our shores. That's before we even start to talk about antisemitism, right-wing extremism, and other things as well that our security agencies need to worry about.

OLIVER PETERSON: He's identified at least three different countries plotting to physically harm people who are living here, Andrew. This doesn't sound like Australia.

ANDREW HASTIE: No, it doesn't. That's how much the world has changed in the last 25 years. We're not just the lucky country living free from a lot of the hatreds and violence that we see across the world. It's actually happening here now, and we need to prepare this country for the challenges ahead. That's why we've got to invest in our security agencies and it's so important that we listen to Mike Burgess, who's warning us of what's going on. I'm sure if you actually got behind closed doors with him in a classified environment, the pitch would be far more alarming.

OLIVER PETERSON: He even indicated that a foreign intelligence service wanted to silence an Australian-based human rights activist so this is really – without sounding too extreme, Andrew – this is really fighting for the fundamentals of this country, in our democracy, that you can have free speech and you can speak up on issues.

ANDREW HASTIE: That's exactly right, and we've seen this happen overseas with other countries as well. You remember Russia has carried out assassinations on UK soil. There was an assassination conducted in Canada, apparently by India. These things are happening around the world, and there are other examples. We can't pretend that Australia is any different, and that's why we need to be on alert for these sorts of developments.

OLIVER PETERSON: Three ships belonging to the Chinese navy, we were told, was spotted sailing about 150 nautical miles east of Sydney. The flotillas first spotted northeast of the country last week. A warning from the Australian Defence Force – they're monitoring those three Chinese navy ships. Is that something that has also put you on high alert, Andrew?

ANDREW HASTIE: I think it's a signal from the Chinese government. They've been undertaking the biggest peacetime military build up since 1945. They've built a Blue-water Navy, and that means they have a navy that can project power across the globe. And they're projecting power deep into the Asia-Pacific region, which is why they've been tracking down our coast a couple hounded kilometeres off Sydney. I think that sends a message that China is challenging the US leadership of the Indo-Pacific region, it's testing American allies as well, like Australia, which is what we saw last week when a Chinese fighter fired flares at a RAAF P-8 Poseidon. So this is a flex, right? This is gunboat diplomacy. They're doing it within international law. It's all within the law but that's not the point – it's a signal. And if nothing else, the Australian people need to be reminded that we've got to step up our own Defence investment, because in a dangerous world, we need to be able to stand on our own two feet and defend ourselves. We can't rely on others to do it for us.

OLIVER PETERSON: Obviously in the region, there is the formation of what is happening with AUKUS, and we do know about some of China's plans in the Indo-Pacific region, but the comments Donald Trump has made overnight in regards to Ukraine - are you surprised that he says he's not dealing with the same US now? It seems as though Donald Trump's trying to cosy up to Vladimir Putin.

ANDREW HASTIE: We've seen this coming for some time. Donald Trump was going to break very strongly with President Biden and his approach to Ukraine. Australia's position, and it's been a bipartisan position, is that we support Ukraine's right to defend itself. We believe that Russia attacked it back in 2022 immorally, unjustly. It's cost thousands and thousands of lives. And in any peace negotiations that will take place in coming weeks and months, we think that Ukrainian sovereignty should be upheld. That's a really core principle because if middle powers like Australia don't stand up for other middle powers like Ukraine, who's going to come to our aid when something like that happens to us.

OLIVER PETERSON: Is it going to strain the relationship between Australia and the United States?

ANDREW HASTIE: I think President Trump is resetting relationships with everyone. I think we have unique advantages in this country given our long standing history. One-hundred years of standing shoulder to shoulder in combat, from the First World War all the way through to Afghanistan. We have deep people to people ties – I'm married to an American, my kids have dual citizenship. We have a huge amount of foreign direct investment into Australia, particularly WA with the big mining operations and the resource operations that run out of here. And of course, we're deeply integrated. The US has run a facility out of Alice Springs, jointly with the Australian Government since for 50 years or so, we've got Marines up in Darwin, and we're about to have a US submarine base here in Perth as part of the AUKUS arrangement. So we're deeply integrated with the US, they're our close security partners, they're close economic partners and the test for the Prime Minister is, is he able to get a good deal with President Trump? I think the Prime Minister is a weak leader. That's why I think Peter Dutton would be a far better Prime Minister, and he'd be able to do the straight talking and get a better deal for Australia under President Trump.

OLIVER PETERSON: Tony wants to know, how come New Zealand surveillance aircraft aren't having confrontations with China? Why is it that Australia is? Why can't we be more like our Kiwi cousins regarding relationships with China and just have a productive relationship, Andrew?

ANDREW HASTIE: We do have a productive relationship, Tony, I would say. We do our job, we do our bit, we're friendly. We have respect for China, we just ask that they show the same respect to us. And over the last two and a half years, it's been the Chinese military doing dangerous and unprovoked manoeuvres—on our divers when they're under the water with sonar pulses, or firing flares or chaff at our P-8 Poseidons and Seahawk helicopters. So we just keep doing our thing. We're reliable, we're stable, we don't want to provoke anyone. As for New Zealand, of course, they're a good friend, but they're a much smaller country, and they're too busy avoiding shoals with their own ships, if you can remember the incident that happened not long ago.

OLIVER PETERSON: Andrew, appreciate your time today. Thank you very much.

ANDREW HASTIE: Thanks so much.

[ENDS]