THE HON ANDREW HASTIE MP
SHADOW MINISTER FOR DEFENCE
SHADOW MINISTER FOR DEFENCE INDUSTRY
SHADOW MINISTER FOR DEFENCE PERSONNEL
FEDERAL MEMBER FOR CANNING

TRANSCRIPT
INTERVIEW WITH RON WILSON, 2SM

WEDNESDAY 5 FEBRUARY 2025

Topics: Diversity, equity and inclusion (DEI), Defence quotas, recruitment and retention, President Donald Trump, Ukraine.

RON WILSON: A new Department of Defence job offering up to $130,000 for a gender, diversity and inclusion officer has sparked backlash from Liberal MPs who argue that the role, and others like it, are a waste of taxpayer money. The role, aimed at increasing gender diversity within Defence's science and technology research sectors, has come under fire amid the Coalition's pledge to cut similar positions and focus on essential services. It comes as U.S. President Donald Trump recently signed a number of executive actions to roll back diversity initiatives in the U.S. government. The Coalition is calling for a similar approach to be adopted here and right now we're joined by Shadow Minister for Defence, Andrew Hastie. Andrew, good morning.

ANDREW HASTIE: Good morning, Ron. Good to be with you.

RON WILSON: Boy, this sounds eerily similar to the diversity, equity, inclusion (DEI) initiatives, which the U.S. government has just backflipped on. Now, when you're thinking about our science and tech sectors, is DEI really what should be top of the agenda?

ANDREW HASTIE: What should be at the top of the agenda, Ron, is merit and competence. The ADF has a very specific mission - it's unlike any other mission in government – and that is to fight and win Australia's wars. Service in the military is unique, and it has its own set of standards. Under a Peter Dutton Coalition led government, we will be insisting on the highest possible standards. We'll be insisting on merit, and we'll be insisting on equality for all. We're not going to divide our diggers on the basis of personal attributes like race or gender or what have you. If you meet the standard, if you're good enough to do the job, then you'll be able to serve in uniform under our flag. It's as simple as that.

RON WILSON: A level playing field for everybody.

ANDREW HASTIE: A level playing field for everybody and no quotas. One of the fastest ways you can destroy fighting morale is to impose quotas on our fighting men and women. It's very, very simple. There are standards throughout the Defence Force. Whether you're a fighter pilot, an infantry soldier, a submariner, a cyber expert, there are standards that need to be met, and all we will insist on is that young Australians meet those standards. And I've got to tell you, Ron, we are in the middle of a recruiting and retention crisis, we're in a readiness crisis as well under the Anthony Albanese Labor government, and that needs to be fixed.

RON WILSON: Well, how do you get recruits into the ranks?

ANDREW HASTIE: What's happening, Ron, is that we're not getting enough young Australians into uniform. There are young Australians who are being eliminated from the recruiting process on the basis of petty medical conditions or histories. Then there are those who are fit and healthy, but they're waiting up to a year before they're actually able to get into uniform. And because they need to make decisions about their life's course, they accept a job, or study, or an apprenticeship somewhere else. We just can't afford to be losing so many young people. This is true in the data. If you look at some of the reports, we're well below our targets in recruiting. But if you go out on the road, Ron, as I was last week in Queensland, in Brisbane, I did a number of defence forums – I've done them in the west as well, and over on the south east corner of the country – I have people coming up to me all the time, as do Members of Parliament, who have a son or a daughter or a friend who wants to join but can't.

RON WILSON: On a broader note, the Coalition's plans to cut back on public service positions and limit spending on roles deemed non-essential is well known. What other sorts of non-essential roles would be getting the axe?

ANDREW HASTIE: We'll be looking very closely at it, Ron. You know, the Defence budget at the moment under Anthony Albanese is just on two per cent. Now, we've seen President Donald Trump insist that allies do more of the heavy lifting. He said to European allies that he expects them to get up to five per cent. So our point would be that every single dollar spent on public service or Defence must count, and we can't have any freeloaders or any grifters or people who are there for reasons of politics. Everyone must have a purpose. We'll be looking at how we make our Defence Force, particularly, more efficient, and also the public service, because we're in a fairly tough environment. Australians are having to manage their family budgets, small businesses are having to manage their budgets, and they're all having to economise and make cuts to their budgets. So our pledge to the Australian people is that we'll be more efficient with our spending.

RON WILSON: Well, Donald Trump is certainly influencing debate in so many areas right across the globe at the moment. How might his influence affect the debate on diversity and inclusion here in Australia?

ANDREW HASTIE: I think President Trump and his administration are common sense people, they're not ideological. I think we know that about Donald Trump – you don't know what he's going to do next, he's a fairly pragmatic sort of person. So I think a lot of people out there who are tired of being beat down by woke ideology, who have been made to feel bad about Australia Day and their country, about our flag, they're tired of all this stuff and so I think what Donald Trump has done in the U.S. has just come out and affirmed some basic common truths that we all know are common sense. And that's what you'll get under Peter Dutton. He's a straight shooter. He loves our flag. He makes no apologies about days like Australia Day or anything else, and we're just going to get this country back on track economically, strategically, but also culturally on some of those key issues as well.

RON WILSON: When it comes to Ukraine, Australia has been a big supporter of the regime there in their fight against Russia, but Donald Trump has thrown up some concerns that he may wind back support. Where does Australia stand on that and what would our likely response be?

ANDREW HASTIE: We support the Ukrainians. They've done a tremendous job defending their territory against the Russians. We've committed military aid and other forms of aid as well. Our defence industry has done amazing work supporting the Ukrainians for a number of different technologies, some of which are sensitive and we can't really talk about to protect those businesses, and we have our role to play. There are forces bigger than us at work, but we'll keep continuing to support the Ukrainians because they are our friends and we've got to stand up for other countries. if we allow the law of the jungle to take hold in this world, that's bad for all of us, including Australia. We want to see security and prosperity, not just in the Indo Pacific, but in Europe as well and that's why I've been supporting our Ukrainian friends.

RON WILSON: Just coming back briefly before we finish up to getting recruits into the ranks here in Australia. Supposing the Coalition gets into government, what will you be able to offer recruits to join up?

ANDREW HASTIE: What will be able to offer – one of the most rewarding experiences they'll have in adulthood. I was a member of the ADF for 13 years, I had the opportunity to lead and command Australian troops overseas, and so my pitch, first and foremost, will be to young Australians that it's good to serve your country. It's good to join in this long tradition of ANZAC with our values of mateship, courage and duty. But also, there are a number of other opportunities that come with Defence as well, whether it be education, the opportunity to get yourself into a house – I know a lot of young Australians are locked out of the housing market – and also to see the world. And the skills that you acquire in the Defence Force are readily transferable into the civilian world so if you come out of Defence, you come out really equipped to start life wherever that takes you. Unfortunately, veterans have had a tough time over the last 10 or 15 years, but I want to say it's skills, not scars, that define our veterans.

RON WILSON: Excellent. Andrew, thank you so much for coming on and speaking with us this morning.

ANDREW HASTIE: My pleasure, Ron.

[ENDS]