THE HON ANDREW HASTIE MP
SHADOW MINISTER FOR INDUSTRY AND SOVEREIGN CAPABILITY
FEDERAL MEMBER FOR CANNING

TRANSCRIPT
INTERVIEW WITH JUSTIN SMITH, ABC RADIO MELBOURNE DRIVE

Tuesday 15 September 2026 

Topics: One Nation; immigration.

E&OE……………………………………

JUSTIN SMITH: Mr Hastie, thank you very much for your time.

ANDREW HASTIE: G'day, Justin. Andrew is fine. Great to be with you and your Melbourne listeners.

JUSTIN SMITH: Very kind. Appreciate it. Where are we at with this traitor business? Did she end up apologising for that? Where did that finish up?

ANDREW HASTIE: Last week I gave her the challenge of either owning her words and saying them herself – because she used those words in a cartoon eight times and posted it and pinned it to her X account – or take the cartoon down and apologise. And she did neither, she just tried to explain it away as satire, which I didn't accept – I still don't accept. So, I do think that she is a coward. I own those words. I think what Australians really expect of political leaders is to acknowledge when they get it wrong. And in this case, she hasn't. This is someone who wants to be the prime minister of the country. It hasn't been an edifying thing for the Australian public, but I wanted to draw a line in the sand because it wasn't about me. Of course, the traitor reference goes back to my giving evidence in the 2022 defamation trial brought by Ben Roberts-Smith against Nine Media. There were more than 20 other SAS combat veterans who were also called, and the question I put to her was: are they also traitors? She hasn't answered that question. I'm drawing a line under it; I want to move on because there are bigger things. There's a cost of living crisis facing Australians, we've got the rise of artificial intelligence, there's a lot of things to worry about, and I want to focus on the Australian people, not her.

JUSTIN SMITH: That's some personal business that gets thrown up to you, though. It can be a word that can be bandied around and thrown about in political circles, but I guess if you're talking to somebody who's served in uniform, it takes on a very different connotation.

ANDREW HASTIE: It does. I gave 12 years, eight months of my life to my country. I did that voluntarily; I'm not asking for people to give me a pat on the back. But I did leave my wife twice to go overseas, and I had to say goodbye potentially for the last time. So, to be called a traitor is a very serious thing. I think the deeper issue here, though, Justin, is that Pauline Hanson and One Nation have embraced this MAGA-style politics. I know they've taken campaigning advice from the people who got Donald Trump elected, and it's a nasty way of doing business. I think Australians expect better from their political leaders.

JUSTIN SMITH: But you seem to be one of the few people on your side of politics that actually seem to be willing to take it up to Pauline Hanson and to go after One Nation. It doesn't seem to be happening here with the Liberals in Victoria, with the election coming up in November – I don't need to tell you that. But also federally, your leader is not really going after Hanson the same way. Do you want them to saddle up as well and take the attack to One Nation?

ANDREW HASTIE: I think what we're facing now is a three-cornered contest. We've got Labor, we've got One Nation, and we've got the Coalition. I want to form government. I want a Coalition government at the next election, and I want to win outright. And I think we should be striving to win every single vote of Australians around this country – people want leadership. We have a plan to lower taxes, to get cheaper power, to cut immigration, and to build more homes, and also to invest in nation-building projects using windfall profits from our resources sector. We have a plan, and we should be fighting for it. I just don't think that we should be weak and I wanted to send a message to One Nation that if they're going to push me around, well, they've picked the wrong person. They picked the wrong veteran, frankly.

JUSTIN SMITH: You talk about cutting immigration. Where Pauline Hanson has said – and we don't want to make this all about one thing - but their cut is by 750,000. We've heard the detail over the last 24 hours. What's your plan then? What's your party's plan?

ANDREW HASTIE: We're working through our plan at the moment, but we have said that we need to cut immigration right back and get it in line with the amount of homes that we build every year. We're about 400,000 homes short, and I see this in my electorate over in Western Australia. We have people living in their cars, waking up down at the beach in tents. I've got kids living in caravans, and it's unacceptable that Australians should go without a roof over their heads because of a lack of homes. I think the best thing we can do is cut immigration and peg it to the amount of homes that we build every year. Last year, we built about 170,000 homes, so we're going to cap the net overseas migration figure below 170,000. But we're going to take our take our time, which we're doing, and get it right. We'll be announcing this soon, but we're not going to rush through the process because immigration is a very complex issue. There are a lot of moving parts. It's a dynamic portfolio. It's not just a static model – you've actually got to work through everything. There are budgetary impacts, there are economic impacts, and there are human impacts. We're talking about real people here.

JUSTIN SMITH: Yeah, and it can also be wrapped in racism when it's not handled properly. You would agree with that?

ANDREW HASTIE: Absolutely.

JUSTIN SMITH: So, how do we stop that? How do we make sure Australia still makes sensible decisions, but doesn't pander to racism when we talk about these things?

ANDREW HASTIE: That's right. We've said that the numbers are too high and the standards are too low, so we want to reduce the amount of temporary migrants living in our country to ease the pressure on our hospitals and our roads, on our housing market and we also want to insist on high standards. People who actually affirm the Australian way of life and our values – things like the dignity of every single person, regardless of your skin colour, your religion, your sexuality, your beliefs, a fair go for all, mutual respect, respect for rule of law, for parliamentary democracy, and speaks English. These are basic requirements for entry into our country, and they're the things that we focus on. Australia is full of people with diverse backgrounds – my wife is a migrant, for example – and that's not going to change. So, we need to work out how, as a country, we work together. Which is why last night on ABC, I talked about having common loves that bind us as a people.

JUSTIN SMITH: You also talked about a common language as well. Are we talking English here? Do we need to force people to speak English? Is that the proposition?

ANDREW HASTIE: Not force people but insist that people learn English – that is the language that we speak. Language communicates culture as well, which is why Indigenous Australians have preserved their language because a lot of their culture is bound up in language, which is a good thing – it's part of our history as Australians. So, we need to have a common language. You can speak a second language, a third, or a fourth – no one's asking to leave your background – but our foreground is English.

JUSTIN SMITH: Yeah, but Andrew - and please, I'm not accusing you of this – but that is sometimes when it can fold into racism. When the suggestion is, hey, listen, you speak English at home or bugger off. That is sometimes how people can hear that. It can get folded in there. How do we stop that from happening then?

ANDREW HASTIE: That's why political leadership is so important. Setting the tone, demonstrating respect for others, and reminding everyone that in the end, the thing that binds us is not how we look, it's not necessarily our fundamental beliefs, but it's our shared lives together, and those lives have to be built around common loves – love of country, love of our common institutions. And again, if we're going to communicate effectively, we've got to have a common language, and I think that's English.

JUSTIN SMITH: It's Justin Smith, ABC 774 Melbourne. It's 5:18pm. Andrew Hastie, Shadow Minister for Industry and Sovereign Capability, is with us. Andrew, do you want to be Prime Minister?

ANDREW HASTIE: Look, I put my hand up internally, at least, to lead the party back in February. I didn't have the numbers, and that's why I stepped aside and supported Angus. I'm very happy to be his Deputy in the House of Representatives. I work with him very closely on a number of things. I won't lie to you and say I have suddenly shelved my ambitions to lead. It comes at a cost this job. I've been in for 11 years now, I've got a young family, I come from the other side of the country. But I do believe in Australia, and I am concerned about the future we're facing, which is why I'm going to continue to do my job and do the best that I can.

JUSTIN SMITH: Let's turn it into a positive then. What do you want this country to look like? If you were to lead this country, what do you want it to look like in 10 years' time, 20 years' time?

ANDREW HASTIE: There are two big challenges that we're facing right now: we're not as economically prosperous as we can be, and a lot of Australians are feeling like every dollar they earn goes less further every week. So, we need to tackle inflation, we need to give people more of their own money back, and we need to get the private sector going because small business drives a lot of our economy. I want to see Australians having more of their own money and having the freedom to spend it as they see fit. But there are also other huge challenges like artificial intelligence coming our way, and I think Australia needs to be a nation that has sovereign capability in artificial intelligence. I don't think we can sit back and watch China and the United States fight the race to AI dominance; we also need to invest in our own country. That way, that gives us a fighting chance of surviving economically, but also in a crisis strategically as well. And then, ultimately, I think social cohesion is critical for our country, and I think that is something that we need to work really hard on. Social cohesion is difficult; it requires everyone to compromise and to lean in and to really make an effort to understand their neighbours, their work colleagues, people they don't actually know. And at the moment, I think we're being polarised on social media against one another, and I think that's also an area that we as politicians can demonstrate leadership.

JUSTIN SMITH: I'll just pre-empt this and say that Pauline Hanson has apologised for comments about First Nation people being the most primitive on earth. What do you make of that kind of talk? Is that the kind of talk you're suggesting?

ANDREW HASTIE: That's the sort of talk I repudiate unequivocally. I think that was a terrible remark to make. I know she has apologised, but I believe that every single person, every single human being, has innate worth and dignity, and I just can't see you can justify that comment, which is why I'm glad she's apologised for it.

JUSTIN SMITH: Thank you for talking to us, and we hope you do again. We appreciate it.

ANDREW HASTIE: My pleasure, Justin.

[ENDS]