THE HON ANDREW HASTIE MP
SHADOW MINISTER FOR DEFENCE
SHADOW MINISTER FOR DEFENCE INDUSTRY
SHADOW MINISTER FOR DEFENCE PERSONNEL
FEDERAL MEMBER FOR CANNING

TRANSCRIPT
INTERVIEW WITH ANDREW CLENNELL, SKY NEWS

SUNDAY 27 APRIL 2025

Topics: Coalition’s plan for nuclear energy, Coalition’s increase to defence spending, Trump-Zelenskyy talks, combat roles in the ADF, disrespect on Anzac Day.

E&OE

ANDREW CLENNELL: Joining me live is the Shadow Defence Minister, Andrew Hastie. Andrew Hastie, thanks for your time.

ANDREW HASTIE: Good morning.

ANDREW CLENNELL: Before I get to your defence policy, I want to ask a question out of that interview in relation with Katy Gallagher in relation to nuclear. Now, she's saying $600 billion isn't an exaggeration in terms of the cost, and she's saying there's been a nuclear power station the UK that's cost $90 billion What do you say to that?

ANDREW HASTIE: I think it's a complete lie from Katy Gallagher. Our costings are based on CSIRO data, and the capital cost of our nuclear plan is $120 billion. In fact, the total cost of our electricity plan, including all generation out to 2050 is $331 billion which is 44 per cent cheaper than Labor's costings. So this is a lie, and I should mention for your viewers as well, the $600 billion figure cited by Katy Gallagher is in fact a discredited figure from a discredited organisation which openly campaigns for the Labor Party – the Smart Energy Council.

ANDREW CLENNELL: Let's go to your announcement this week then. For an extra $21 billion in Defence spending in five years, taking Defence spending as a share of GDP to two and a half per cent, then you want to lift Defence spending to three per cent of GDP. That's well ahead of Labor's projected target of around 2.3 per cent. How have you come to these numbers?

ANDREW HASTIE: It's a dangerous world and under Labor, Defence spending has stayed at two per cent. It's been stagnant. What we've also seen is AUKUS added to the Defence budget. So there's a big imposition, a structural imposition, on the Defence budget, and under Labor, they've done nothing about it. And what we're seeing instead is cannibalisation of existing capabilities in the Army, Navy and Air Force. So we're taking the hard decision to invest in Defence, and this money will help deliver capability. It will reinstate the fourth squadron of F-35s. It will boost our sustainment budgets, which are always the first to go under a Labor government, which means we'll get more operational and training hours for our sailors, soldiers and aviators. And then finally, we're going to use the money to invest in asymmetric capabilities that we need as a country. Never mind the recruiting and retention crisis that has emerged under Labor, we're also going to fix that. So there's a lot to be done, and that's why we're investing this money.

ANDREW CLENNELL: Have you come to this three per cent target because Donald Trump's administration has demanded it? Elbridge Colby, Donald Trump's choice as head of policy at the US Defense Department told a US Senate committee that Australia is currently well below the three per cent level advocated before by NATO.

ANDREW HASTIE: Not at all. In fact, we've been listening to Kim Beazley, the former Labor leader, for many years now. He's been calling for three per cent. We take Kim Beazley very seriously. He was our Defence Minister, he's a fine strategic mind. He's been calling for three per cent and so it's people like him that we're listening to, and that's why we're investing in our Defence Force, because we are living in a more dangerous world. Your viewers know that. Prime Minister Albanese has said that many times. We take that reality seriously and we're not going to get caught with our pants down if the strategic environment changes and we find ourselves in a crisis.

ANDREW CLENNELL: The policy also talks about giving the ADF tools such as missiles, drones and uncrewed undersea vessels. Is this where most of the money will go?

ANDREW HASTIE: We have a lot of capability in this country that needs to be sustained, so it will go to sustainment budgets. We need to bring on projects like the F-35 fourth squadron. We need to invest in AUKUS. But we've also got to work out how, as a nation of 27 million people with a vast continent, we can defend ourselves, and how we can generate mass cheaply. So asymmetric capabilities, strike capabilities, we're going to focus on those things, because that could give us the edge. A lot of Australians don't know but a lot of our small to medium enterprises here have assisted the Ukrainians, particularly in drone and counter drone warfare, over the last three years. So we'll be looking to Australian businesses to deliver some of that capability, which is why we're going to have a focus, of course, on developing sovereign capability as well.

ANDREW CLENNELL: The Labor strategy has been to concentrate on the Navy side of things over the Army. You're a former soldier. Will part of this funding be used to reinstate some funding to the Army?

ANDREW HASTIE: The first thing we're going to do is going to have a summit of strategic leaders at Swan Island down south in Victoria. And the reason why we're doing that is because Labor has done too many reviews over the last three years. We believe it's a time for taking decisions and communicating those decisions with the Australian people. So we're going to have a residential where we bring in our finest minds, people from Defence, people from uniform, people from the private sector. We're going to crunch through the toughest strategic problems facing our country, build a shared reality, and then get on with the mission of defending our country. It could be a number of things that we focus on, I'm agnostic about that, but we've got to work out where the most pressing problems lie and then resource them, which is why we're committing $21 billion over the next five years, and three per cent of GDP within a decade.

ANDREW CLENNELL: And that's a closed-door summit too, isn't it? It sounds like another review.

ANDREW HASTIE: It's not a review at all. If you know Swan Island, it's a Defence facility, and it sends a message that we won't be telegraphing this to our adversaries or people who want to listen in to what we're saying. This is a closed-door environment. It won't be Kevin Rudd again at the Parliament House. This will be very serious. It'll be residential, meaning we're not there to just get the cameras out and look like we're doing stuff. We're actually going to crack through these very challenging problems facing our nation.

ANDREW CLENNELL: Do you think this Defence policy should have been a larger part of your campaign?

ANDREW HASTIE: Well, it is a large part of our campaign. It's a big spend. It's $21 billion over five years, it's three per cent of GDP within the decade. We're talking about it right now. The Australian people have a decision to make over the next six days. Do they want a strong leader in Peter Dutton and a strong Defence Force with a growing industrial base? Or do they want a weak leader in Anthony Albanese with a weakened Defence Force and a shrinking industrial base? It's a pretty clear choice, and it's front and centre right now as people go to the polls.

ANDREW CLENNELL: What do you think most people will think when they hear some of the money for this comes from the income tax cuts that you want to repeal?

ANDREW HASTIE: Our costings will be released in due course. We want to have a balanced, a reasoned and sensible budget, and our costings for all our policies, including defence, will be released in coming days.

ANDREW CLENNELL: You say in this policy that you will hold the senior leadership of Defence to account. Are you looking to change the leadership of the ADF?

ANDREW HASTIE: We are going to fix Labor's mess. That's the bottom line. That's what your viewers need to understand. Labor have run Defence into the ground, they've raided it for money, it's going backwards under their leadership. And so we're going to fix Labor's mess in Defence, and that means reforming Defence as well. We want it to be leaner, meaner and faster, and that's the general thrust of our policy. So whether we make changes to legislation, regulation, to personnel, that will all be decided from government, because we need more information about how we go ahead with these things. But we honour our uniformed men and women, we thank them for their service, and we're going to work constructively with Defence and our uniformed personnel to deliver the best possible capability for the Australian people.

ANDREW CLENNELL: Extraordinary pictures out of Rome overnight. This conversation between Donald Trump and Volodymyr Zelenskyy at Pope Francis's funeral. What do you make of the current situation with the US, Russia and Ukraine?

ANDREW HASTIE: I hope they can strike a peace deal. I hope that we can come to peace. Thousands of people have lost their lives because of Russia's illegal, immoral and unjustified invasion of Ukraine. We're going to be watching very closely. Of course, we advocate for peace, and we hope that we can get to a deal soon, but very sympathetic towards those who are fighting now on the Ukrainian side. I've met with people who've lost loved ones. It's a very tough war. So as a liberal democracy who supports the rule of law, and we support likeminded countries, obviously we want to see a peace deal.

ANDREW CLENNELL: Donald Trump and JD Vance, their interaction in the White House with Volodymyr Zelenskyy. What was your personal opinion on that?

ANDREW HASTIE: My personal opinion is that I wouldn't treat any ally or world leader like that, nor would Peter Dutton. It's very simple. I think respect is really important. Now, what happened in that meeting is up to them, but certainly we want to maintain good relationships with everyone in our region, and especially with our close partnerships is important.

ANDREW CLENNELL: You've faced accusations in this campaign that you were being hidden because of these comments you made on whether women should be in combat. You said in 2018, "the fighting DNA of a close combat unit is best preserved when it's exclusively male." Do you still believe that?

ANDREW HASTIE: Look, I've made it very clear, Andrew, what our Coalition policy is. I don't resile from those words that I've said in 2018, I'm not going to back down on your show today, after some sort of pat on the back from people out there. But the Coalition policy is very clear: combat roles are open to all people in the ADF and all Australians if they want to join up. We want more young Australians joining the ADF. But we will have high standards. We will have high standards because in combat, there's no points for second place. It's a win or lose proposition. And for those who are criticising me, look at my record as the Assistant Minister for Defence and as the Shadow Minister for Defence for the last five years. I stand for my record.

ANDREW CLENNELL: Mr Hastie, fair enough, but basically it's Coalition policy, but it's not your personal view. Is that right?

ANDREW HASTIE: No. The way the media works these days is that unless you flip and completely contradict yourself because they think it's bad what you've said in the past, you somehow should resign. This is Richard Marles' perspective, right? I'm not going to fold for Richard Marles. He's using women in the ADF as a political prop, and I think that's shameful. Now, I said those comments based on my personal experience serving in in Special Air Service Regiment. There are bonds that you form with men that you serve with overseas that people like Richard Marles will never understand, but they're very quick to politicise them to their own personal gain. So I'm not going to take a lecture from Richard Marles or anyone else. As the shadow minister, I've been very clear what our policy is, and our Coalition policy is that all combat roles are open to all Australians.

ANDREW CLENNELL: We saw your candidate for Whitlam, Ben Britton, dumped, partly because of previous comments he made that women shouldn't be in combat. He said, "their hips are being destroyed because they can't cope with the carrying of the heavy loads and the heavy impacts that's required for doing combat related jobs." And then he went on to say, "why would you want to send your beautiful women, your females, the ones that are the backbone of your society out there, your society only exists because of women, why would you want to sacrifice them in war on the altar?" What do you make of his comments, and how do they differ from yours?

ANDREW HASTIE: Mr Britton is no longer a Liberal candidate. His comments were on the record. Like I said, all I can focus on is what I've said over the last five years as the Assistant Minister for Defence and the Shadow Minister for Defence. I've made it very clear what the Coalition policy is, and that is that all combat roles are open to all Australians. We just insist on very high standards.

ANDREW CLENNELL: Do you condemn his comments or are you pretty agnostic about them?

ANDREW HASTIE: Mr Britton was disendorsed for other comments, which I won't repeat on this program. But he was disendorsed for other comments that he made. I'll leave it at that.

ANDREW CLENNELL: All right. He had on his nomination form that, "I've been interviewed by the Shadow Defence Minister's office for role as defence advisor, I was successful and have been shortlisted for any future positions." Is that true?

ANDREW HASTIE: It's not true. I never interviewed Mr Britton, I've never met with Mr Britton, nor have I ever considered him for a role within my office.

ANDREW CLENNELL: Finally, some controversy around Anzac Day and the RSL having a Welcome to Country as part of proceedings. What did you make of that?

ANDREW HASTIE: I think Anzac Day is a very solemn day. It's where Australians, millions of Australians, gather around cenotaphs and shrines across this great country to remember those who died serving our country and those who still carry the scars of war, whether they be physical, emotional or mental. I think that anything that distracts us from that very sacred purpose on Anzac Day is highly inappropriate, including the disrespectful booing from a convicted neo-Nazi.

ANDREW CLENNELL: Andrew Hastie, thanks for your time.

ANDREW HASTIE: Thank you.

[ENDS]