THE HON ANDREW HASTIE MP
SHADOW MINISTER FOR HOME AFFAIRS
FEDERAL MEMBER FOR CANNING

TRANSCRIPT

INTERVIEW WITH ANDREW CLENNELL, SKY NEWS

Sunday 10 August 2025

Topics: Net Overseas Migration, Gaza conflict, recognition of a two-state solution, Tony Burke’s visa failures, Trump-Putin meeting, net zero.

E&OE……………………………………

ANDREW CLENNELL: Joining me now is the Shadow Home Affairs Minister, Andrew Hastie. Andrew Hastie, thank you for your time. What did you make of what Tony Burke said then about the migration levels? He was saying, look, permanent migration, most of it is onshore anyway, indicated that it might be around that record 195,000 mark that we've seen this government have before. Peter Dutton obviously went with a policy to keep it to 160,000. Your immigration spokesman, Paul Scarr has indicated that policy could change. What do you make of all of this, Tony Burke's comments in particular?

SHADOW MINISTER FOR HOME AFFAIRS, THE HON. ANDREW HASTIE MP: Good morning, Andrew. Well, the impact that the Australian people are feeling is from net overseas migration, which is a yearly figure, which between the years 2000 and 2019 averaged about 190,000 people. But under Labor in their first two years, it was about half a million for each year. So they added more than a million people in their first two years, which is 70 per cent higher than any other two-year period in our history. And that's why Australians are seeing a housing demand crisis – young Australians are competing with people from overseas for a home, whether it be to buy or rent. People are seeing the congestion in their cities, on their roads. Essential services are really struggling – it's hard to see a doctor, hospital ramping is a big issue. And then, of course, there's social cohesion issues. So Tony Burke took us into the long grass, into the weeds, but what really matters is the net overseas migration figure every year and it's through the roof. It's throttling out under Labor and that's the big problem here.

ANDREW CLENNELL: Yeah, it's about 330,000. They've got it down from that 500,000 a year figure you talk about. So you don't have any concerns with the permanent migration figures at the moment? You're more worried about the net migration figures?

ANDREW HASTIE: The big picture is, of course, the net overseas migration each year. That's having an impact on people. And so everything should be on the table, and we should be looking at reducing migration levels to a sustainable level, and I think that's what a lot of people are raising. You go to any capital city, talk to an average Australian, and they're feeling the cost of Labor's uncontrolled migration levels.

ANDREW CLENNELL: I spoke to Tony Burke about canceling the visa of this Mona Zahed, and he said she hadn't even applied for the right visa, so even before they got to character grounds, it would be cancelled. Do you have a reaction to that? And do you have any concerns in relation to the cohort that's come from Palestine since October 7? The Minister said these were the most harshly checked people of all that we've ever seen, they've been checked over twice. What did you make of all that?

ANDREW HASTIE: Well, number one, good to see that the visa was cancelled. That's what I called for on Friday and clearly, I think on character grounds, the applicant failed. The question is, how did it get to this point? And that's a question that Tony Burke didn't really answer. Earlier in the week, he was spruiking how tough he was with visas, and how he was cancelling visas for people had a record of so-called hate speech. And then we see this come through. So I'd like to see how the system works. I take the point that the cohort coming out of Gaza have been reviewed twice by ASIO, but Australia wants to have confidence. Australians want to have confidence in our in our visa system, and I think this is something we'll be pursuing at estimates in due course.

ANDREW CLENNELL: I want to ask about the situation with the government and Israel and Palestine and the government's stance. What do you think, first of all, of what Benjamin Netanyahu is looking to do in terms of moving in on Gaza and occupying it?

ANDREW HASTIE: I think it's a very risky proposition for a number of reasons. I think it's incredibly complex from a military perspective. If you look at Gaza from a bird's eye view on Google Earth, you'll see that a lot of it has been reduced to rubble. That makes it a lot easier to defend. It would be incredibly difficult for IDF troops to move through and clear. All the advantage would be with Hamas defenders and anyone else who would stand and fight. So we can expect more casualties from a military perspective, but also the humanitarian crisis that could continue is also high risk. So look, I understand the government's statement that they put out with a number of other countries. It was good to see the hostages and their wellbeing elevated in the statement. People have forgotten about the hostages, and Israel has every right to defend its borders, but also to pursue the recovery of its citizens. But I think the final paragraph was deeply unrealistic about a two-state solution, particularly excluding Hamas for a number of reasons.

ANDREW CLENNELL: Well, just on that, I mean Anthony Albanese has left the door open and recognising Palestine. What do you think of that move?

ANDREW HASTIE: I think there's a couple of things that the Prime Minister probably isn't across. Number one, Hamas still enjoys widespread grassroots support amongst the Palestinian people. If you look at the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research – which is based in Ramallah, it is a part of the Ministry of Justice there – they've been doing polling of the Palestinian people almost quarterly since the year 2000. Their last poll, poll number 93 which was conducted in September 2024, showed that there is still a high level of support for the October 7 attacks amongst the Palestinian people, and there's still a high level of support for Hamas amongst the Palestinian people. In fact, Hamas is the most popular Palestinian faction, so there's grassroots support. And then number two, who's the alternative? We saw last year in Beijing, Hamas and Fatah meet, facilitated by Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi, and sign the Beijing Declaration, which committed to a government of national unity. So in fact, the war in Gaza has brought Fatah and Hamas together. And then finally, I'm not sure that a lot of the Palestinian factions — in fact, it would be a good question to ask: how many actually recognise the legitimacy of the State of Israel? We have protesters on our shores crying out from the river to the sea, which is language taken from Hamas' 2017 document. So in order for a two-state solution to work, you've got to exclude Hamas. That will be very difficult. Number two, you've got to have an alternative. Well, Fatah and Hamas have committed to a government of national unity. And then number three, you've got to have both parties recognise each other, and I'm not sure there is widespread recognition for the State of Israel.

ANDREW CLENNELL: Sure. Well, what do you think about the statement suggesting that international law would be breached by Benjamin Netanyahu? Do you agree with that if he moves in?

ANDREW HASTIE: Look, I think that that's possible. I'm not an international lawyer. Certainly, I look at the weight of history, and Gaza has never successfully been occupied and pacified by Israel. So I'm not sure why we expect it to be any different now under Benjamin Netanyahu. So I think we've just got to temper this with realism. I think as well that we want to come to some sort of settlement. We won't have a lasting peace – that's true. There's always outbreaks in the Middle East, particularly around Israel. But we do need to move towards a peace settlement, and this is going to involve compromise, and it's going to be uncomfortable, because on the side of Gaza, there are some very unsavoury characters involved, and that's why it's trite to just come up with easy solutions on a statement. This is going to be a lot of hard work, and if there was an easy solution, we'd already be there.

ANDREW CLENNELL: So do you oppose recognising Palestine briefly at the moment?

ANDREW HASTIE: At the moment, I am very hesitant to recognise the state of Palestine with Hamas in prime position. You've got to remember the last time they held elections in in Palestine or the Palestinian territories, was in 2006. Hamas won a majority in the Legislative Council – 74 seats of the 132. Why would it be any different now, if they did move to elections? Let's just say the Gaza conflict wound up and they moved to elections, what guarantee would there be that Hamas would not win another majority? So I'm just being realistic about our prospects of peace if potentially, Hamas is still governing Gaza at the end of all of this.

ANDREW CLENNELL: And what do you make of Donald Trump meeting Vladimir Putin in Alaska, with Volodymyr Zelenskyy already indicating a deal might not be possible?

ANDREW HASTIE: Again, that's another area of the world where Australians hope for peace, and we really hope that President Trump can land something. Of course, President Zelenskyy has been leading his country for a lot of years, through this. Since February 2022, a lot of Ukrainians have suffered as a result of the war, and I understand that he would be very hesitant to settle for anything less than his people would expect or accept. So again, another peace process which is fragile, difficult, and which will involve a lot of work and compromise.

ANDREW CLENNELL: Since the election, you've come out very stridently against net zero. You told your constituents in an email recently titled, "Gaslit by Labor: The Truth about Net Zero. Have you ever been bullied into disbelieving something you knew to be true?". You then said Anthony Albanese and Chris Bowen were gaslighting Australians on climate policy, and you said the system's a scam, the net zero economy favours big foreign commercial interests. Are you a climate sceptic? And clearly, you'll be pushing hard for the Coalition to dump net zero I take it?

ANDREW HASTIE: What's a climate sceptic, first of all, Andrew, so that we're on the same page?

ANDREW CLENNELL: Do you think climate change is real?

ANDREW HASTIE: Yes, of course. Climate change has been occurring throughout history. The question is, how much does Australia have a role in changing the climate when we produce one-point-one per cent of the world's emissions? We export 25 per cent of the world's coal. We export 20 per cent of the world's liquefied natural gas to the biggest emitters, like China, India, Japan and other countries. In the Asia Pacific region alone, the uptake of fossil fuels is increasing, as it did last year. So the question is, what should we do about it? Should we transfer our heavy industry Australian jobs offshore? Should we demand that the Australian people pay more for their power bills? Should we actually orchestrate a massive transfer of wealth through our tax system so that Australians are paying more for their power? And I think that's fundamentally unjust, and it's hypocritical, and that's why I've called out Labor on this.

ANDREW CLENNELL: And I guess you're hoping then the Coalition comes to an anti-net zero policy?

ANDREW HASTIE: Well, I assume I'm not in the majority but given that we just suffered a massive loss at the election, given that we're going through a process of revisiting policy, I've spoken my mind. But I'm probably in the minority, and that's okay, but I wouldn't be doing my job if I didn't fight for a better deal for the Australian people.

ANDREW CLENNELL: A lot of talk about you, Andrew Hastie. Are you interested in leading the Liberal Party at any point?

ANDREW HASTIE: I've said I'm interested in leading the Liberal Party, but around May, I made it very clear that my young family and my wife comes first, and also my constituency. So I'm just doing what I can to serve my constituents here in Canning. I'm obviously enjoying this role of Home Affairs, and I'll keep doing that. That's my job. But I'm not going to lie to you and so I don't have any ambition to lead. Of course I do, but timing in politics is everything, and right now, Sussan Ley is our Leader, and we're doing everything we can to build a platform to win the next election.

ANDREW CLENNELL: Do you think you have what it takes to lead the Liberal Party from the west coast with the experience that you have behind you?

ANDREW HASTIE: Yes, I do. And Andrew, all this practice getting up, talking to you early in the morning. It's possible.

ANDREW CLENNELL: Andrew Hastie, thanks so much for your time.

ANDREW HASTIE: Thank you.

[ENDS]