THE HON ANDREW HASTIE MP
SHADOW MINISTER FOR DEFENCE|
SHADOW MINISTER FOR DEFENCE INDUSTRY
SHADOW MINISTER FOR DEFENCE PERSONNEL
FEDERAL MEMBER FOR CANNING

TRANSCRIPT
INTERVIEW WITH PETER FEGAN, 4BC

WEDNESDAY 26 FEBRUARY 2025

Topics: Chinese warships off Australia’s coast.

PETER FEGAN: Joining me now on the line is former SAS, and he's the Shadow Defence Minister, Andrew Hastie. Andrew, a very good morning to you.

ANDREW HASTIE: Good morning, Peter. Good to be with you.

PETER FEGAN: I've got to say, I've been banging on about this for two weeks, Andrew, and I'm like you. I mean, why would we allow China just to hang off our coast without a please explain, or at least going out there and asking them to move on? I mean, would we do this to China? No!

ANDREW HASTIE: That's right, Peter. This is an act of gunboat diplomacy from the Chinese government. They've sent a flotilla of three warships all the way through Philippine waters, through the Coral Sea, down past Sydney, and they've conducted two live-fire exercises in the Tasman Sea, disrupting up to 50 flights. They then moved down to about 300 kilometres east of Tasmania, inside our Exclusive Economic Zone. So the message from the Chinese government is: 'we are now a global force, we have a blue-water navy', and they're sending a strong signal to the Australian Government. And what has the Prime Minister done? He's shown weakness. He's not standing up for national interest, nor insisting on mutual respect. Because you're absolutely right, Peter, if we did the same sort of thing in Chinese waters, or near Chinese waters, disrupting their commercial flight paths, we'd have hell to pay.

PETER FEGAN: We'd be at war. If we were doing this in China and we disrupted flights, we didn't tell them about our live-firing exercises, we would be at war right now – that's what would happen.

ANDREW HASTIE: That's right, we'd be in a lot of trouble. And Peter, our ADF personnel conduct routine security operations through the region, and over the last two years, they've been harassed by the Chinese military who've conducted dangerous and provocative manoeuvres. Whether it's fighters firing chaff at our P-8 Poseidon a couple of weeks ago, or indeed, our Navy divers having a Chinese destroyer pulse them with sonar, it's very dangerous and provocative. In those two instances, the government has not stood up for our ADF personnel. So it's no surprise that this has happened. This is a test for us, and we're not stepping up and meeting the challenge.

PETER FEGAN: So what is the Prime Minister doing, Andrew Hastie? Because I've got to say this, I don't think him and Richard Marles are on the same page, or whether they're talking to each other. I know that Albo was busy playing cricket with Raygun yesterday, and there were probably more pressing things to worry about than our, of course, national defence. But Richard Marles said that he's spoken to China. Albo does this weird press conference and avoided most of the questions where he said, "oh, look, you know, our governments both know about it", but then we learn in the Senate estimates that it was a Virgin pilot that first blew the whistle. A Virgin pilot! Like, what?

ANDREW HASTIE: That's right, Peter. Very troubling indeed, and we're going to explore that today. Estimates has just started now – Defence estimates – and our Senate team for the Coalition is going to ask Defence more searching questions about who knew what and when. But the point is, that you made, the Prime Minister is absent from this. He's been at pains to explain this flotilla away. He suggested it's well within international law and in a sense he's right, but that's not the point. The point is that the Chinese government is sending a signal of military strength. And as Donald Trump, the US President, is resetting relationships in Europe, NATO partners are anxious, and China is down in our waters, a long way from home, testing us – testing our resolve. The Prime Minister claims to have fixed the relationship, but under the Coalition we had wolf warrior diplomacy where, the Chinese Ministry for Foreign Affairs was putting out mean tweets. Now we have gunboat diplomacy under Anthony Albanese, where we actually have warships off our coast.

PETER FEGAN: It's a fight we wouldn't win – we all know that. If we went to war against China, we wouldn't win. Let's hope that never happens but when you've got Chinese warships just off your coast being aggressive, you've got to think they're there for a reason. I think we have every right, Andrew Hastie, to send our Navy out there and to bolster – go out in a pack – and sit off and intimidate them a little bit. I think we've got all right to do that.

ANDREW HASTIE: I think we have a right to defend our waters. I think that the point here, though, is that the Prime Minister should be transparent with the Australian people, and the Prime Minister should be standing up on behalf of our national interest –

PETER FEGAN: Exactly!

ANDREW HASTIE: – And insisting on mutual respect. So this is primarily a political problem. The Prime Minister is responsible for statecraft, which includes, of course, the military options and also diplomatic options. He's not exercising his diplomatic options, and that is to pick up the phone to the Chinese government leadership and say, enough is enough, this is not this is not respectful of us, and we insist on mutual respect.

PETER FEGAN: Before I let you go, if the Coalition is successful at the next election, hypothetically, you would become the defence minister – you're in the shadow position at the moment – what would be your stance on China? What would be the Coalition's stance? Let's put yourself in Richard Marles' shoes today. Would you be sending a fleet out there to tell them to buzz off?

ANDREW HASTIE: Well, I haven't had a briefing. I've asked for a briefing, but I haven't had a briefing yet. So I want to be careful about what I say without knowing all the facts from a military context. But what I will tell your listeners, Peter, is that China is undergoing the biggest peacetime military buildup since 1945. Now that's a consensus across Labor, across the Coalition, it's a consensus in the US and elsewhere. The question is, what do we do about it? Well, we need to invest in our Defence Force. Under Labor, we're actually going backwards. Inflation is eating into Defence dollars, and they haven't increased the budget to account for AUKUS, so we're seeing army cannibalised, and other capabilities in Navy and Air Force cannibalised. We're actually going to get weaker before we get stronger, and that's a real problem. It makes us vulnerable. So we need to actually up our Defence expenditure, and we need to back Australian industry to deliver capabilities for our Defence Force.

PETER FEGAN: Very quickly, could we see a top brass Australian Defence Force clean out under a Coalition government?

ANDREW HASTIE: I think all options are on the table, Peter. And again, we'll examine that when we come to government. But certainly, we’re looking for people who are not looking into the past, but looking into the future, people with strategic imagination and people who want to see results. So far, we're not seeing the results that we need, and I think leadership is absolutely critical, so that'll be our criteria for who runs the Defence Force going forward.

PETER FEGAN: Andrew Hastie, been great to have your company this morning.

ANDREW HASTIE: Thanks very much, Peter.

[ENDS]