THE HON ANDREW HASTIE MP
SHADOW MINISTER FOR HOME AFFAIRS
FEDERAL MEMBER FOR CANNING

TRANSCRIPT

INTERVIEW WITH PATRICIA KARVELAS
ABC AFTERNOON BRIEFING

Tuesday 26 August 2025

Topics: Iranian Attacks on Australia, Net Zero.

E&OE……………………………………

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Andrew Hastie, welcome to the program.

ANDREW HASTIE: Thanks, Patricia.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Big day. Anthony Albanese revealed ASIO suspects Iran was behind these two antisemitic attacks. It could be more, but these two they believe it's absolutely been Iran. They also will list the IRGC as a terrorist organisation. Are these important and good moves?

ANDREW HASTIE: These are good decisions. We stand with the government on this shoulder to shoulder. I was briefed by Penny Wong and Tony Burke just before question time. This is a very significant move by the government, supported so ably by ASIO and our law enforcement agencies. This was Iranian sponsored terrorism, operationally directed by the Iranian Republican Guard Corps, so it's right that we boot out the ambassador, and it's right that we amend the Criminal Code to list the IRGC as a terrorist entity.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: In terms of when that will be listed, are you going to try and facilitate a process where that can happen immediately?

ANDREW HASTIE: I want to move as quickly as we can, but we've already called for the IRGC to be listed up to 10 times since 2023, so this has taken too long. We want to get it done as quickly as we can.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: You say it's taken too long. It's taken this particular trigger. What trigger should have led to this in your view?

ANDREW HASTIE: Well, I think it's been pretty clear that the IRGC has been conducting terrorism around the world. I understand why in the past some governments have decided not to list it, but we've reached that threshold where we've seen since October 7, an increase in antisemitic behaviour and violence towards our Jewish community, and it's now very clear that the Iranians were behind it.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Kicking out an ambassador, though - we shouldn't mince words - it's a big deal. We haven't done that in the post-World War II era. It's pretty significant action. It also takes away from Australia's ability to go through diplomatic channels if we need to. Why is it worth that risk?

ANDREW HASTIE: I think we do have to maintain some sort of contact. But it's absolutely unacceptable for a foreign government to be sponsoring terrorism on Australian soil. That's a red line. Iran crossed it, and the consequence is pushing out the ambassador, rightly so. And we'll move quickly as a Parliament to list the IRGC as a terrorist organisation.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: And when it comes to the Jewish community, the ASIO Director General, I was there watching him, they can't be sure that there won't be more of this. Clearly, they're on to something but is that a concern for you?

ANDREW HASTIE: It is a concern. The IRGC operationally directed the two attacks, but they did it through cutouts or proxies. And so these are very sophisticated operations enabled by encrypted communications, cryptocurrency and a whole range of human networks. So I think it's really important that we send a strong message. The Australian community right now is very fragile. It's fragile for a number of reasons, but particularly after 7 October, Australians – I want to make that clear – Australians of a Jewish heritage or faith feel very vulnerable at the moment, and it's right that we take this measure today.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Yes, they certainly do, and this entire process is obviously now going to unfold. So you're pretty satisfied that this is all the right move. Would you like to see any difference in the way that the government's handled it or do they think they've done the right thing here?

ANDREW HASTIE: I think we should have listed the IRGC sooner, but I understand that our intelligence agencies had to stack it all up and do so in a forensic manner. I think it's important now that we get on with the listing of IRGC. And I think this sets a precedent – you mess around in Australia, you target Australian citizens as a state actor, there are now consequences.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Okay, so this is now the benchmark to kick out the ambassador?

ANDREW HASTIE: It is a benchmark. I think we've got to be tough on national security. And if you think about it, you mentioned this is the first post war expulsion of an ambassador, I was trying to think if Five Eyes countries or countries in the EU have done something similar, and I couldn't think of any off the top of my head. So this is a very significant move. It's the right move. That's why the coalition backs the government.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Does it also show, though, that the antisemitism we've seen, not exclusively because not all of the attacks are Iran the fact, but that some of it is not home grown, that it's being imported from overseas?

ANDREW HASTIE: Yes, I do think that's the case. We're a globalised world now. Internet, technology means that we can have all sorts of hate spilled into our community via the online world. And so I think it's really important that we send this message, but also there's a lot of work to do. It's not just home grown. There's elements on the right, there's elements on the left, there's terrorist groups, there are people with religious motivations. All of it needs to be called out, all that needs to be addressed,

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Just on another issue, net zero came up in your party room today. Apparently it got rather feisty, so I just want to check a couple of things with you. Do you think this needs to be settled in a special party room meeting next week?

ANDREW HASTIE: There was a discussion on net zero. I love a good debate, Patricia.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: I heard it was pretty wild.

ANDREW HASTIE: I've been in the parliament now almost 10 years, and it's not the wildest debate I've ever seen. I was there under the former Coalition government, we had some good, strong debates. Debate is important. We're going through a process to settle our energy policy, and it's right that backbenchers express their views.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Okay, but does it need to be settled immediately in a special party room meeting?

ANDREW HASTIE: There's a process underway. Susan Ley is our Leader, she made it clear that we want to follow the process. Dan Tehan has a role as our energy shadow, and I want to respect the sovereignty they have over that policy area. Of course, I've expressed my views, other colleagues have as well, and we'll see what we come to.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Because your view is that you don't think net zero by 2050 should be policy to keep right?

ANDREW HASTIE: No, I've made that very clear. I believe in a sovereign, secure, competitive and prosperous Australia, and I think net zero undermines that very thing.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Okay, how about net zero by 2060 that's another option that your colleagues are talking about?

ANDREW HASTIE: Well, China has committed to net zero by 2060 but they've also committed to peaking their emissions by 2030 and their 2060 goal is aspirational. So unless we're going to commit as well to peaking our emissions in the next five years, there's no real equivalency here. We've got to do what's best in the interest of Australia. That's why I want us to be sovereign, secure, competitive, and you need to have energy security to be competitive and prosperous. My great fear, Patricia, is that we miss the AI revolution. We miss it entirely, and we become dependent on foreign powers for our computational power going forward, and it's going to be critical to our economy and t's going to be critical to our security.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Let me take you back though. In terms of settling it, are you happy, you know, because you want the policy to be overturned, but are you happy for it to go through a process to mid next year, or would you like it to happen sooner?

ANDREW HASTIE: I would like to get on with the task of holding this government to account for what I think is a very reckless energy policy which is hurting Australian families, businesses, industry –

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Let me politely interrupt to ask, is it very hard to hold the government to account if you've got this debate constantly going on, rather than a settled policy?

ANDREW HASTIE: Well no, a settled policy would be good, but there's a timeline, and I want –

PATRICIA KARVELAS: But is it too long? Because some of your colleagues would like it to happen sooner. Michaelia Cash, for instance, is reported to have said something.

ANDREW HASTIE: Well, I'm not sure she said that.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Okay, what do you think she said?

ANDREW HASTIE: Well, the joint party room, if you're in the Shadow Cabinet, you don't speak. It's a forum for backbenchers. You're not meant to. You can reply to backbenchers if they ask you a policy question pertaining to your portfolio. But Michaelia didn't get up, and you'd hear Michaelia if she did.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Okay, fair enough. So you're happy with mid next year being the deadline?

ANDREW HASTIE: I didn't say that. I just said there's a process and I want to allow my Leader and Dan Tehan to come to their own decision about when that process concludes. Having said that, I do think there is a big opportunity for us to have a contrast with Labor on energy, and I think the right question is, how do we build a sovereign, secure, competitive, prosperous Australia?

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Just final yes on this. You want to respect Sussan Ley's ability to navigate this I'm hearing –

ANDREW HASTIE: Yes, of course.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: – But you would like it to happen sooner. You don't want it to drag out?

ANDREW HASTIE: I think we need to come to a position at some point soon, over the next one to three months. There you go. I'll give you a bracket.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Thank goodness.

ANDREW HASTIE: One to three months.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: So that's quite imminent. You think it needs to happen.

ANDREW HASTIE: Well, I just think from my perspective, the stake of our country, or the future of our country, is at stake, and the longer we go down this path, the higher the cost of transitions is –

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Well, to be fair, the cost of transition is high either way.

ANDREW HASTIE: Well, it's not actually because –

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Coal fired power stations are on the out. To actually get them in a position where they could keep powering our country will cost. Either way, it costs.

ANDREW HASTIE: But we're selling 25 per cent of the world's coal. So countries are investing in coal. India and China, particularly, Indonesia – they're all burning off coal. That's the cheapest form of base load power. The cost is about $1.2 to $1.5 trillion by 2030, up to $7 to $9 trillion by 2060, that's from an independent report done by the University of Melbourne, Queensland and Princeton – the Net Zero Australia report. I know you guys like to fact check. Check it out, the cost is huge.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: I can't fact check right now. We're going to park this and have this conversation again, but I appreciate your candidness about the time frame. Thank you.

ANDREW HASTIE: Thank you.

[ENDS]