THE HON ANDREW HASTIE MP
SHADOW MINISTER FOR INDUSTRY AND SOVEREIGN CAPABILITY
FEDERAL MEMBER FOR CANNING

TRANSCRIPT
INTERVIEW WITH PATRICIA KARVELAS, AFTERNOON BRIEFING

Monday 7 September 2026

Topics:  Social media; superannuation; Warren Pickering; Secret Harbour by-election.

E&OE……………………………………

PATRICIA KARVELAS: For a view from the Opposition, I'm joined by Shadow Minister for Industry and Sovereign Capability, Andrew Hastie. Welcome to the program.

ANDREW HASTIE: G'day, PK.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Do you support laws that allow people to opt out of the algorithm?

ANDREW HASTIE: Well, let's see the laws first. We've seen no legislation yet from the government. But certainly, Angus Taylor and the rest of the Coalition are concerned about censorship whilst at the same time, we do believe that we have to do a better job of protecting Australians. Last month, you would have seen the World Robot Games up in Beijing, the 100-metre sprint – there were crash pads at the end to stop those robots. At the moment, there are no crash pads for big tech, for social media, for artificial intelligence in Australia. We need to work out a solution. But who's going to provide that standard? Is it Anika Wells? Is it her standard that's going to govern what we see and don't see online? And these are the questions that the government has not made clear to the Australian people.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Okay, but if it's neutral that you're either in the algorithm or out – and everyone's algorithm is different, I mean, mine's hilarious, yours is probably hilarious too. That's the way it works, it picks up on our interests. Then, if you opt out, you opt out of a left-wing algorithm or a right-wing algorithm, regardless of what your usual feed is. So, it would be neutral, wouldn't it?

ANDREW HASTIE: This is a great question, and the good news is that we're about to embark on the Joint Select Committee for Artificial Intelligence. It's a two-month committee process, and I don't see the rush here from the government to bring in legislation before we've had a chance with people from across the Parliament – both houses – to examine artificial intelligence and all the other issues bound up with it through the committee process. And at the end of that, we'll have a better idea of what we're talking about when we're talking about algorithms, how they work, how big tech operates and designs its programs. We're going to examine all of this in detail. So, I think the government can pump the brakes here, let the committee do its work, and then we may have a better understanding of what's at stake here.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: But your crash pads analogy, that's because you do think there needs to be guardrails, right?

ANDREW HASTIE: Yeah, definitely, absolutely. But do we want to censor Australians? No, we don't. Do we want to censor what they see? No, we don't. But absolutely, there's work to be done. We just don't know, and that's why we've called on the government to do this committee process.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Does it worry you that it takes 22 minutes or something – and I might get the minute wrong – for a young boy to be radicalised or seeing Andrew Tate kind of content?

ANDREW HASTIE: I'm not surprised at all. Absolutely. I have three young kids myself. I'm doing everything in my power to make sure they don't get exposed to social media early, which is why we supported the under 16 ban. It's been poorly executed by the government, and we've only seen a reduction of about four per cent of usage by under 16s since those laws were implemented by Labor. There's work to be done, and that's why we have hesitation, because if they've failed to execute the social media ban properly for under 16s, what guarantee do we have that they won't do the same thing with the digital duty of care?

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Are you worried though generally that algorithms have been leading to a sort of radicalisation on the left, on the right – we're seeing disruptions that are perverse because of those algorithms?

ANDREW HASTIE: Sure. Most people, when they get on social media, don't realise that they are the product. So, the model for big tech is driven by revenue. They drive ads to people, they drive influencers to people to get as many reactions and clicks, and therefore profit. So, people need to be aware of that. I've opted out of social media myself. I've taken a great step back, and I feel much better for it, to be honest.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: When did you do that?

ANDREW HASTIE: About four or five months ago.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Okay. How has it changed your life?

ANDREW HASTIE: Your moods are more level because every time you open up that Instagram feed or Facebook, the algorithm is sending you stuff that makes you react. I don't think it helps our critical thinking either. You can tell, you can see it in someone's eyes when they've been down the rabbit hole. Now, we want to balance personal freedom here, and that's really important. That's why we've mentioned censorship as one of our concerns.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Okay, fair enough. I want to move to superannuation. Pauline Hanson's idea that three per cent of your superannuation as a worker for three years can be taken as a as wage, basically. Is that a good idea?

ANDREW HASTIE: Look, I think Pauline Hanson here is trying to address a real cost of living pressure for Australians. If you look at real wages since the pandemic, they've crashed, and they haven't recovered. You go to the outer metropolitan parts of this country – it doesn't matter what state or territory – people are doing it really, really tough. And so, insofar as One Nation is seeking to address cost of living pressures, that's great. The question is, will it work? And that is a question for them – I haven't seen the modelling or the costing. What I will say, though, is the big picture is this: we are experiencing cost of living pressures because we have a high-spending, inflationary Labor government. Our plan is to change the government – to win government – bring on lower taxes, cheaper energy, cut immigration, build more homes and invest in our country using some of the windfall profits from the resources and energy sector.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Do you think super, though, should be mined for that cost of living relief rather than tax cuts? That's the other way.

ANDREW HASTIE: That's the other way. But I don't think we should pooh-pooh policy suggestions in a reflexive way, I think we need to have a discussion, and people are crying out for a bit of leadership that delivers them cost of living relief. Now, Jim Chalmers came out earlier and had a good crack at Pauline Hanson, but he's the one driving a lot of the pain for a lot of Australians. It's his big spending, and he's driving inflation, and that's eating away at people's incomes.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Some people in your party, including your friend actually, Garth Hamilton, think super should not be altered or touched – it's a kind of legacy strong program that is a pride for Australia and Australian workers. Do you agree?

ANDREW HASTIE: Sure. Super is a is a good thing, and as Angus Taylor said this morning, we back the super guarantee. There's no contrary policy coming out of my mouth right now. But if we're going to have a decent conversation about how to deliver cost of living pressure, we can't just smash people reflexively when they suggest an idea.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Barnaby Joyce says it won't be inflationary, but logic says it would have to be inflationary, wouldn't it?

ANDREW HASTIE: Well, I don't know. I mean, I –

PATRICIA KARVELAS: – Like if you're pumping money into people's –

ANDREW HASTIE: = Yeah, if you're pumping money into the economy. We have an inflation problem. It's well outside the target band set by the RBA. We've got to get it back to two to three per cent. The way we do that is cutting a lot of government spending, which is why our plan is to change the government and do that exact thing.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: We begin the week with One Nation setting the terms of the debate. It's their policy we're debating. That must frustrate you?

ANDREW HASTIE: Well, not really. I thought it was a bit of a magician's trick. Warren Pickering, the Victorian One Nation leader, has questions to answer about his past, and Pauline Hanson and Barnaby Joyce have questions to answer about what they've known about his past. So, you could argue that this is a bit of a magician's trick here. But we're focused on delivering for the Australian people. Today we were asking questions about housing in Question Time. We asked about illicit tobacco, and we're following up the veterans' allied health cap, which needs to be removed.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: You mentioned Warren Pickering. For those watching who don't know who I'm referring to, he's the leader of One Nation for Victoria. Victoria is having a state election in November, so that's pretty pertinent, obviously –

ANDREW HASTIE: – Eight weeks away.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Yeah, it's very soon, and there are allegations made by his ex-partner about him, drug use. Pauline Hanson says it's been dealt with. Is that a good enough answer?

ANDREW HASTIE: Well, I think it might be in his past, and I know Barnaby talked about redemption – I believe in redemption – but that doesn't qualify you for office, particularly the Premier of Victoria, which is what we're talking about here. So, I think it's right and proper that everyone has their previous record examined, because oftentimes past performance determines future performance. I've had the ruler run over me by the media over the last 11 years – I don't see why it would be a different rule for One Nation.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: So, are you surprised that she was able to just brush off questions about him, and he remains the lead candidate for Premier for them?

ANDREW HASTIE: I think they should just answer the questions. It was a pretty comprehensive article published by The Australian newspaper today, and it goes to the character of the man.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: What does it say about One Nation's vetting?

ANDREW HASTIE: Well, I think it was Warren Pickering who went on Sky a week or so ago, and basically said, "we're not going to release our candidates because the media might ask questions". I mean, that is not acceptable for a party that wants to govern a state, let alone a country.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Going to something that very much involves One Nation in a real contest that has already happened – Secret Harbour. That is the electorate in WA in the state level, where One Nation has won. They beat Labor, but it is your electorate as well, it's the same area. Did it disturb you to see them win?

ANDREW HASTIE: Look, I think it's a reminder that there is no such thing as a safe seat. There's no such thing as a red or a blue seat, and that if we don't fight for the forgotten people of Australia, no party will be given the privilege of governing this country. My view is we've got to work harder to connect with people in the outer metro who are struggling with big mortgages, some with negative equity, who haven't had the infrastructure investment that inner metro capital cities have, and their essential services are really clogged up: hospitals, GPs, aged care. And then finally, there's just a lack of housing as well. I mean, where I live in Mandurah – which is just to the south of Secret Harbour - we've always enjoyed affordable housing. That's no longer the case as high immigration levels have pushed people further down south. And so, people are feeling this, and they're asking the question: who's going to fight for us? And if we cede that ground to other parties, we're going to be extinct.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: That extinction is something you've warned about before. Pauline Hanson was on the front page of the West Australian today, saying that she's going after your seat, they're going to get a good candidate to run against you. She's obviously lighting up her plan to get rid of you.

ANDREW HASTIE: Sure, it was yesterday actually – the Sunday Times. Same paper though. Look, I don't worry about that. I've got one job, and that is to deliver for my electorate. I love my electorate. I've lived there for 11 years. My kids were born down there, they're at school there. I've delivered a lot of infrastructure and I'm still getting wins, by the way. The Labor state government committed to a new train station, which they now have to build for the people of Secret Harbour. One Nation didn't fight for that. I campaigned for that for the last year and a half, and Labor committed so it's going to happen. I stand by my record of delivery. I'm not worried about who's taking potshots at me. I just get on with the job.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Basil Zempilas. Did he make a mistake in the way that he talked about One Nation winning? Was that a strategic mistake in the lead up to that by-election?

ANDREW HASTIE: Well, Basil's been elected for 18 months – I've been elected for 11 years this month. I've done five federal elections; I've done three or four state elections. My view is that you have to fight for every single vote, and you have to have a vision for the forgotten people of this country, whether it's at the state or federal level. I think we could have done a much better case of providing a vision for the people of Secret Harbour, built around housing, infrastructure, essential services, and the things that they really care about.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Was it also a message that people just are over the two-party system?

ANDREW HASTIE: I think there's a strong element of anti-establishment sentiment there, absolutely, but that's being replicated across the world.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: I'm about to go to that. Let's go to that. The AFD results in Germany. That's just one state in Germany, but the AFD has polled incredibly well, not quite a majority. But that's a far-right party, the first time since World War Two. What does that show us?

ANDREW HASTIE: Forty-four per cent – I think the trend continues. I think that the system of the last 40 years is breaking down and being disrupted, and people have had enough of the high levels of immigration, the reserve banks around the world pump priming the economy, driving up asset prices, but eating into the wealth of working people. They've had enough of it, and things have got to change. And if the major parties that have enjoyed government for the last 40 odd years don't respond, well, they'll get booted, which is what we're seeing.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Thank you so much for coming in.

ANDREW HASTIE: Thank you.

[ENDS]