THE HON ANDREW HASTIE MP

SHADOW MINISTER FOR DEFENCE

SHADOW MINISTER FOR DEFENCE INDUSTRY

SHADOW MINISTER FOR DEFENCE PERSONNEL

FEDERAL MEMBER FOR CANNING

TRANSCRIPT
INTERVIEW WITH CHRIS KENNY, SKY NEWS

MONDAY 11 NOVEMBER 2024

Topics: Remembrance Day, US election, Defence’s Net Zero Strategy.

CHRIS KENNY: Let's return to Remembrance Day and global security issues. I caught up with Shadow Defence Minister, Andrew Hastie, and asked him to explain what Remembrance Day means to someone who's risked his own life in war and seen comrades fall.

ANDREW HASTIE: It's good to be with you, Chris. Remembrance Day is about remembering the sacrifice of all those men and women, more than 100,000 of them, who've given their lives serving our country. Today, though, we pause and reflect on the First World War where, as a young nation of less than five-million people, we had more than 400,000 Australians enlist to go and fight in Europe and the Middle East. We had more than 60,000 killed. We had more than 156,000 either wounded, gassed or taken prisoner. Australia lost some of its greatest talent and that's why we have so many small monuments, memorials and cenotaphs dotted across this great country of ours, because grieving communities 100 years ago had to try and make sense of it all. So today, at 11 o'clock, we paused to remember those people and also those who followed in their footsteps subsequently from the Second World War right through to the Afghanistan war.

CHRIS KENNY: It's absolutely crucial that we honour that sacrifice for the pure human sacrifice that it is, and to remember what people gave up, but we also need to remind ourselves of what they were fighting to protect. We need to be ever vigilant.

ANDREW HASTIE: That's right, Chris, they were fighting against military aggression. Every country has a right to live freely, to uphold its sovereignty and of course, World War One kicked off with Germany attacking France and Belgium, and Britain and its allies responded. That's a long time ago but the principle still holds, as it does today with Russia's illegal invasion of Ukraine. That's why we're supporting Ukraine, because we believe that a country's territorial sovereignty should be upheld. If we let that principle go, then we're basically giving the world over to the law of the jungle and that's not a place any of us want to live in. We want to live in a in a world that's governed by law, and sometimes you need to take military action to uphold those laws.

CHRIS KENNY: I'll come back to that in just a second, but in terms of educating current generations and future generations about the sacrifice in World War One, you've drawn my attention to the documentary "They Shall Not Grow Old". Let's have a look at a clip from that.

*EXCERPT PLAYS*

CHRIS KENNY: Actual footage, real people from more than 100 years ago that's been re-colourised in that documentary. Tell us, Andrew, how you've been using that to educate the next generation.

ANDREW HASTIE: Well, my son, Jonathan, is nine years old and I bought him a couple of books by British author, Dominic Sandbrook, who decided to write some history books for his own son. It's pitched for kids between eight and 12 called "Adventures in Time", and Jonathan's read the First World War and the Second World War. But still, it feels a bit remote for him and so I thought we'd sit down and watch this great documentary where Peter Jackson brings people to life. I think it's a reminder that although the First World War, the images that we see generally are in black and white, these were real people with real hopes and dreams, with real aspirations, and they're just like us. So to think of Australia with less than five-million people, losing 60,000 dead was such a huge cost. It's a huge cost, and it's a reminder to us that there is a brutal cost of war, which is why the best way to prevent war is to be strong, and that's what the Coalition is focused on. We want to have a strong Defence Force to prevent war.

CHRIS KENNY: Yeah, I want to talk to you more about that, especially given that we've seen Donald Trump win the US election – lot of hope that he could bring peace to the Middle East, that he could bring peace in Ukraine, that he would stand up more strongly across the Taiwan Straits against China. What are you expecting from a Trump Administration when it comes to these big flashpoints in the world at the moment?

ANDREW HASTIE: I said back in July that there'd be no free lunch under a Trump Presidency, and I think that's a reality that many nations have to start dealing with. America is going to reinvest in its own industrial base, in its own military, which is a good thing, because a strong America means a strong world order. But I think also there will be an expectation on allies to lift Defence spending and to re-industrialise as well. So the takeaway for us is we're going to have to lift our game with defence. Labor is not spending enough. They're not investing in the Defence Force enough, and so we need to up our Defence spend, but we've got to be smart about how we invest in our Defence Force. And then, of course, we need to re-industrialise Australia. Now, we don't want to do everything, but we need to identify those areas of industry which are absolutely critical to our national survival in a war or conflict, and we need to invest in them, and we need to build them. Again, this Labor Government is not doing that. So I think they're the two takeaways from a Trump Presidency.

CHRIS KENNY: You've been talking about investing more and investing more wisely in our Defence personnel and hardware for a long while, but the Trump Presidency – the second Trump Presidency – that means that could be foist on Australia regardless, doesn't it? Regardless of what we decide to do, it will be demanded of us as an ally.

ANDREW HASTIE: That's right. I think President Trump is transactional – that's no secret – and he'll expect his partners and allies to do their bit, especially with AUKUS. I think we really need to lift our pace and our speed. We're not seeing the leadership required from both the federal government under Anthony Albanese, nor the WA state government under Roger Cook. And I think the Americans, under Trump, will be demanding more of us, so we need to be ready for that and that's why we've been calling on this Labor Government to do more - not just with AUKUS, but across Defence, because we can't put all our eggs in one basket. We also have an Army, a Navy and an Air Force. We also have emerging capabilities in cyber and space as well. This is a great opportunity for us as well because there are a lot of economic dividends with investment into Defence and so I'm actually optimistic, and I'm also excited for young Australians who will either serve in uniform or be involved in the defence industry supply chain in some way.

CHRIS KENNY: Isn't this another arm of the energy debate that people don't pay enough attention to? If we're going to be a strong country in defence terms, if we're going to re-industrialise ourselves, if we're going to build and manufacture defence armaments, including nuclear powered submarines here, we can't do it powered on renewable energy. It's laughable. We need reliable, dispatchable power, and that's why nuclear energy is not only something that's important for the domestic economy, it's important for the nation's defence.

ANDREW HASTIE: Precisely, Chris. I know you've been on this point for almost a decade now. Intermittent solar and wind power is not enough to deliver industrial outcomes that we need as a country if we're going to be strong and rebuild our Defence Force. The only way to do that is with reliable base load power, and that comes from coal, gas and nuclear power, which is why we're making the argument for nuclear power. Defence, only a week or so ago, released its Net Zero Strategy. China has not committed to net zero until 2060 and by the way, they've committed to peaking their emissions by 2030 – the same with Russia. So as America is going to start reindustrialising, as Russia and China and other countries aren't even doing any sorts of commitment towards net zero in the next decade and beyond, what is our Defence Force doing? Well, they're releasing a Net Zero Strategy, which is insane, in my opinion, because we need to be focused on delivering industrial outcomes that will strengthen our Defence Force and give us supply chain security in the event of a crisis or a conflict.

CHRIS KENNY: Extraordinary stuff. Thanks for joining us, Andrew Hastie, and thank you for your service.

ANDREW HASTIE: Thanks Chris. Good to be with you.

[ENDS]