THE HON ANDREW HASTIE MP
SHADOW MINISTER FOR INDUSTRY AND SOVEREIGN CAPABILITY
FEDERAL MEMBER FOR CANNING

TRANSCRIPT
INTERVIEW WITH MARK LEVY, 2GB

Thursday 10 September 2026

Topics: One Nation.

E&OE……………………………………

MARK LEVY: Let me bring Andrew Hastie in, the Shadow Minister for Sovereign Capability, also the Deputy Leader of the Liberal Party in the lower house. He joins me now from Parliament House in Canberra. Andrew, good morning to you.

ANDREW HASTIE: Good morning to you, Mark. Good to be with you.

MARK LEVY: I will say first and foremost, it's nice to hear you firing up, and as [inaudible] says, I believe this is the making of Andrew Hastie. I just wanted to start off with the definition of the word traitor. What is your definition, and why are you so offended by the use of it in that cartoon? Can you explain that for us, Andrew?

ANDREW HASTIE: Sure. I take a very simple definition of a traitor. A traitor is someone who betrays someone or something – a cause, a principle, or a country. And the context of this, of course, is my oath of enlistment, which I took in January 2003, where I swore allegiance to Queen Elizabeth II. I promised to resist her enemies and do my duty according to law. Now, I was subpoenaed to give evidence in the Federal Court in 2022 – I did that. And the context of that cartoon is that case with Ben Roberts-Smith, and I've been called a traitor for giving evidence. I see it as One Nation calling me a traitor to my country and to the oath that I took back in 2003. I think it also reflects on the other veterans who were also subpoenaed – more than 20 SAS combat veterans who gave evidence back in 2021 and 2022 as well. So, I've called on Pauline Hanson to either own her words – come out and own them and call me a traitor – or take the cartoon down. She's taken the weaker option; she hasn't taken responsibility for it. She pinned it to her account – it's still pinned to her account. I think that shows weak leadership in someone who can't take responsibility for her actions. his is someone who talks about being the Prime Minister of Australia.

MARK LEVY: Have you heard from Senator Hanson this morning, Andrew?

ANDREW HASTIE: I have not.

MARK LEVY: We had a conversation with my listeners in the first hour of the program, and overwhelmingly, there's a lot of people that disagree with One Nation or anybody referring to a veteran as a traitor. There are a lot of people, though, Andrew, who automatically say: Andrew Hastie gave evidence against a person who they describe as a war hero. He's a Victoria Cross winner – Ben Roberts-Smith. This was your legal obligation, was it not, to give evidence in a court of law? And what do you expect to come from the upcoming criminal trial, given what the allegations are in relation to war crimes? And will you be called to give evidence in that trial?

ANDREW HASTIE: There's a couple of things here. I was told, come to the Brereton Inquiry, back in I think it was 2016, or you will be subpoenaed. Like many other veterans and serving members I was called by the Brereton Inquiry. And then I was subpoenaed as part of the defamation action which was brought by Ben Roberts-Smith against Nine Media to give evidence in 2022 in the Federal Court. So, you can either be in contempt of those legal processes, or you can do your duty according to law. I chose to do my duty according to law, and I also gave my evidence under oath, before God. I will note as well that Justice Besanko, the presiding Federal Court judge, wrote in his judgment that I was a straightforward witness.

MARK LEVY: Do you harbor any ill will towards Ben Roberts-Smith?

ANDREW HASTIE: No, I don't. In fact, I've said it in court – I said I pity him and the situation that we're in. But the reality is that we have standards for Australian soldiers. When you wear that flag on your shoulder overseas, you represent the Australian people and the values that we stand for. That's what the flag represents. We're not like other countries. We're not like Russia or Iran or other countries which don't uphold the Geneva Convention. This is really a question about who are we as a country and what values do we hold to as a nation. That's why I've reacted so strongly to Pauline Hanson effectively calling me a traitor, by pinning a cartoon which she authorised to her account, which called me a traitor eight times. She doesn't get to redefine Anzac. She doesn't get to redefine the values of our soldiers, sailors, and aviators. They are the custodians of those values, and Anzac belongs to us all, not to one political party.

MARK LEVY: Just before we move away from the legal aspect to this, right? We mentioned the fact that you had an obligation to appear in court and give your evidence. You had an obligation once you were subpoenaed. Why, though, Andrew, did you speak to the media prior to you being subpoenaed to give evidence in that trial?

ANDREW HASTIE: Well, the media came to me. The media had information that I was present on one of the missions back in 2012 in a village called Siyah Chow in Afghanistan, where one of the allegations, one of the alleged murders, occurred. So, the media came to me, and as a public figure, you don't get a choice in a lot of these matters. I don't resile from what I've done in the past. In the end, I try to act with integrity. We're all imperfect people, but we are accountable for what we do, and I stand by what I have done. I love my country, I've served it in uniform – 12 years, 8 months. I'm serving in the Parliament now, I want to keep serving because we are in very tough times as a country, and I don't think it's going to get any easier any time soon. And so, when someone calls you a traitor – I'm a pretty mild fellow, but you push me hard enough, and I'll tell you what, I'll come for you.

MARK LEVY: Are there double standards at play here, Andrew? The point I've been making in the first hour is it would be a bit rich for me to sit here and go after the ABC for that vile depiction of Gina Rinehart in a satirical television program, and not, at the same time, go after One Nation over a satirical cartoon that labels you a traitor. Do you believe that there are double standards at play?

ANDREW HASTIE: Yes, I do believe there are double standards at play, and I made that point yesterday as well. I agreed with you, Mark, about the Gina Rinehart satirical piece that was put on the ABC. It was despicable, and I'm glad it was pulled down. But if you hold to that standard, as you have, then you've got to also hold to standards elsewhere, even when it's uncomfortable. That's why, on behalf of the veterans who don't have a voice here, Mark, I just thank you for upholding that standard.

MARK LEVY: Well, it's the least I can do for people who have fought for this country, Andrew. I know it's uncomfortable for you to talk about, given what you were forced to do in places like Afghanistan, but we can't take that away from veterans. I, in recent weeks, Andrew, as you probably know, have been sitting here and been fighting the government over this ludicrous allied health services cap on our veteran of $5,000. I mean, we've got a debate at the moment as to whether or not One Nation referred to you as a traitor, while at the same time trying to ensure veterans like you - and those who have suffered physical and mental scars from their service – are afforded the allied healthcare that they deserve. I mean, we surely need to get our focus here back on what we need to do to support veterans, rather than have a political party that is looking good, as far as the polls are concerned in One Nation, referring to people like yourself as traders, Andrew.

ANDREW HASTIE: Exactly. It's a real double standard here from One Nation. I met with veterans earlier this week who have been in Canberra lobbying the government to change their cap on the allied healthcare. Great guys and girls – I have a lot of respect for them. I met some of their spouses as well. We're going to fight all the way to make sure this Labor government looks after our veterans because they are neglecting them. And with so much wasteful spending – whether it's climate functions in the Pacific Islands that Chris Bowen's paying for with our money, or whether it's all this Net Zero garbage that they're rolling out – $750 million over four years is nothing compared to the waste that the Labor government is currently spending elsewhere.

MARK LEVY: Why are you raising this now, Andrew? That's one part of me where I think, well, hang on, you join me every couple of weeks on this show, and we've spoken about some of these things in the past – the fact that you had to give evidence in that trial and what your view is of Ben Robert Smith. Why are you taking a stand in the last 24 hours? Pauline Hanson says it's to do with your leadership aspirations. What do you say to that?

ANDREW HASTIE: Of course she'd say that. For someone who looks for a political angle and everything, they just can't believe that someone might be standing up on principle. Recently, there was a non-publication order sought, I think, by the government with reference to some of the witnesses who will be appearing in the trial of Ben Roberts-Smith. I'm not one of those. I had been absorbing these hits because I thought it was in the best interests of the whole proceeding to not get political with this. One Nation has politicised this process. I was going to absorb it, and now that it's unlikely that I'll appear, now I'm speaking up for myself, but more importantly, the veterans who don't have a voice.

MARK LEVY: So, you don't feel that you will have to appear in this criminal trial against Ben Roberts-Smith?

ANDREW HASTIE: I think it's unlikely. Yes.

MARK LEVY: Okay, that's interesting. Just on the topic of leadership aspirations, I will say this though, Andrew, and I've sat here and been critical of you in the past. I watch Question Time – I probably need to get a life – but I sit there and watch Question Time, and I watch some of your colleagues get up and ask questions. I watch Tim Wilson, I watch Phil Thompson, Michael McCormack speak about a whole range of things. When was the last time you got up to ask a question? Are you being sidelined by the leadership, given you are supposed to be one of the Liberal frontbenchers and senior figures within the Liberal Party?

ANDREW HASTIE: Mark, I have a really important role as the deputy leader in the House. I sit in tactics at 10:30 every morning, and then I meet with Angus and the Manager of Opposition Business, Dan Tehan, at 12:30, and we go through tactics. One of the things I always like to do is to empower other people in their portfolios to ask questions. It's their job. If Michael McCormack has a veterans issue to prosecute, yes, I'm a veteran, but I trust Michael to get the job done on behalf of veterans. Likewise with my other colleagues. So, it's about sharing the responsibilities, and I don't need to be getting a question every day to feel validated.

MARK LEVY: But when was the last time you asked a question, Andrew?

ANDREW HASTIE: When was the last time? I couldn't tell you off the top of my head.

MARK LEVY: But you see what I mean, though, Andrew? When we've got a Coalition, an Opposition that's trying to hold the government to account on serious issues. With all due respect to Michael McCormack – yes, he's the Shadow Veterans Affairs Minister – but you're a veteran. You're standing up today and in the last 24 hours talking about how angry you are at being referred to as a traitor. I want to see that same fire and brimstone in the Parliament of Australia in Question Time going after the government, standing for your brothers and sisters in the Defence Force. But we haven't had a question from Andrew Hastie. So, can you understand the optics? They don't look all that good.

ANDREW HASTIE: In fairness, Mark. Angus gave me the responsibility of the debate immediately following Question Time, where we gather together as the Coalition and we go after the government. I led a 10-minute debate, spoke for 10 minutes on tobacco excise and how the government is failing to protect our communities from these illicit tobacco crime syndicates that are effectively running the tobacco industry at the moment in this country. So, I have plenty of opportunity. I take your point, though. You want more mongrel; you want a bit more of me in Question Time. Let's see what we can do.

MARK LEVY: What about your federal election chances in 2028? We had a by-election over in the west that encompasses part of your federal seat. Are you at all concerned about One Nation, and how do you plan on fighting back, so to speak, against the rise of this orange wave?

ANDREW HASTIE: We've just got to do a better job of delivering for regular Australians who have been forgotten by this government and who feel forgotten by the political class, full stop. I think a lot of the resentment comes from the fact that real incomes have flatlined since the pandemic, and they aren't picking up. People are struggling to get into a home, whether it's through ridiculous prices or they just can't get a rental. They're not getting enough infrastructure. Public transport's a problem. Essential services are overwhelmed. Immigration's out of control. They feel forgotten, and we've got to start fighting for these issues. But am I worried about my seat? No, I'm not. Honestly, the last couple of weeks, as I've locked in here, I'm not worried. I'm down for the fight, though. I'm down for the fight, and I'm imposing cost on Pauline Hanson now. She's not going to back down. Well, she's picked a fight with the wrong veteran. And you know what? If that costs me my political career, so be it – I get more time back with my wife and kids. But I love my community. I love the seat of Canning. I'm going to fight all the way for it.

MARK LEVY: Alright, Andrew. Thanks for joining us, mate. I've got a lot of veterans here saying, Mark, we're offended by any of our brothers and sisters being referred to as a traitor. So good on you for firing up. Good on you for defending yourself and we'll see what One Nation does. I think the honourable thing would be to take the cartoon down and simply offer up an unreserved apology, so that's going to be nipped in the bud. Thanks, Andrew. Appreciate it.

ANDREW HASTIE: Thank you, Mark.

[ENDS]