THE HON ANDREW HASTIE MP
SHADOW MINISTER FOR INDUSTRY AND SOVEREIGN CAPABILITY
FEDERAL MEMBER FOR CANNING

TRANSCRIPT
INTERVIEW WITH MARK LEVY, 2GB

Thursday 24 September 2026

Topics: Medicare AI incident; Prime Minister’s trip to the United States; Defence Estate Review; veterans’ allied health cap scrapped; One Nation; Coalition’s energy policy.

E&OE……………………………………

MARK LEVY: Andrew, good morning to you.

ANDREW HASTIE: Good morning, Mark. Great to be with you.

MARK LEVY: Mate, fairly serious this revelation this morning. An OpenAI agent has managed to hack into an Australian Medicare portal. What do you make of this?

ANDREW HASTIE: It's a very serious development, and I'd like to know more information, as would many Australians. This happened back in June. I'd like to know the severity of the hack, what actually was compromised, and why it's taken this long for us to find out about it. I'm also keen to know about our own government's cyber security. This is something we need to be planning for, and I think it just underscores the need for us to have our own sovereign artificial intelligence capability that works in the national interest and for the Australian people.

MARK LEVY: It's concerning because a robot has accessed our data and our government websites through a Medicare portal, so you automatically think Medicare, you think personal details, you think health details – a whole range of different things – and you wonder how our services haven't picked it up in the first place. And I think the concerning thing here is we're all talking about AI, or as Donald Trump calls it SI, because it's not artificial, it's special intelligence, according to him. But on a more serious note, I mean, there's a lot of people still learning about AI and talking to some of my mates this morning, Andrew, they're quick to jump on ChatGPT, which is the same platform operated by OpenAI.

ANDREW HASTIE: That's right. For your listeners, there's two frontier labs at the moment. There's OpenAI, which delivers ChatGPT to Australians, and then there's Anthropic, which delivers Claude. Both of them are based in the United States. Both of them are leading the world in artificial intelligence, and both of them are actually reshaping the world. And if a rogue open AI agent has hacked into our government effectively, then the question we need to be asking ourselves is: how do we best set Australia up to make the most of the opportunities from AI, but also protect against the threats? At the moment, all our AI capability comes from the United States via submarine cables, which is why I've been making the argument for investment here in Australia – a frontier lab – where we build something that works in the national interest and protects us. Because if there's rogue AI agents out there, we need to have our own defensive AI agents protecting Australian government data, our private sector, and other things that are important to us. This is a really big moment, I think, and it's a reminder that the world is changing, and we've got to adapt to it.

MARK LEVY: I must admit, Andrew, I'm not a tech expert, right? I'm like most people – I learn, I listen to the experts we get on this program. The one thing that I realise is that AI is nothing new, right? It's been there for quite a while now. And it makes me question whether we've sort of left our run too late. It feels like we're only now having these discussions. We're only now learning more about Open AI. We're learning more about ChatGPT and some of these other platforms. Have we left our run too late in terms of how we manage artificial intelligence?

ANDREW HASTIE: No, but we are at a critical juncture. These big frontier labs and the hyperscalers like Google and Meta and others are looking to invest elsewhere, but they're looking to invest in places that are secure, have a good system of government and a rule of law. They were going to invest in the United Arab Emirates, but after the Iran War, I think that's revealed how dangerous that would be. So, Australia is situated in the southern hemisphere, we've got a lot of land. We could attract billions of dollars of investment, create jobs here, and also build our own sovereign capability. I've likened the AI race to the nuclear arms race – we can't afford to get left behind. This is why the government needs to be doing a much better job of working in the Australian national interest. And Anthony Albanese – we have questions about the timing of this announcement. If he's known for two weeks, why has he just announced it now? Why weren't we informed in Parliament two weeks ago?

MARK LEVY: It doesn't really hold up when it comes to him promising transparency in government, does it, Andrew?

ANDREW HASTIE: It doesn't. Transparency is not something the Albanese government is known for. But we're going to do our best. As you know, I'm on the Joint Select Committee for Artificial Intelligence, along with Jonno Duniam and others from the Coalition, and we're going to be arguing the case for the Australian people for sovereign capability but also making sure that we have safeguards that protect us, our data, and the national interest.

MARK LEVY: Just while we're talking about the Prime Minister here, front page of the Australian today: he'll declare the rules-based world order is no longer working, and warn the US and China that the Indo-Pacific is not a "chessboard" for global superpowers after Donald Trump undermined the Prime Minister's international agenda by trashing his push for regulation of AI and tech giants. If we move away from AI and look about the world we're living in at the moment, Andrew – something you and I have spoken about – we've got the war against terrorism in the Middle East, the ongoing conflict between Russia and Ukraine, the threat of China and the Indo-Pacific. At the same time, we've got a government that's making an enemy, so to speak, with Donald Trump by undermining him and poking holes in whatever he says - our most powerful ally. Our Defence spend is not where it needs to be. We're hanging our hat on these AUKUS subs that don't come through to the 2030s. Is Anthony Albanese really in a position to be making these big, bold statements on the world stage?

ANDREW HASTIE: No, I think we've got to do a much better job of demonstrating that we're a strong middle power who takes national security seriously. At the moment, under Labor, we're deindustrialising faster than we ever have in the history of our country. The Net-Zero policies are killing heavy industry – we're having to bail out smelters left, right, and centre. We're not spending enough on Defence, in fact, Labor is selling off some of our bases across the country – Victoria Barracks in Sydney being a key one. And we've been slow to work out how important artificial intelligence is. So, across the board, the Albanese government has been caught flat-footed. So, when you open your mouth on the world stage, you've got to be able to back it up and unfortunately, the Prime Minister's record as the prime minister doesn't stack up.

MARK LEVY: Well, you mentioned Victoria Barracks. It looks like the New South Wales Premier is going to step in in relation to a heritage listing here, which would certainly decrease the value substantially and not make it an attractive option for developers, so that might force the hand of the federal government. We have had a win, though, haven't we, Andrew, since we last spoke in relation to the allied health services for our veterans? Common sense prevailed – that allied health cap is now gone.

ANDREW HASTIE: Absolutely, and I just want to congratulate publicly all of the veterans who came down to Canberra and advocated for the removal of the cap. They gave voice to thousands of veterans across the country. Mark, I know you hammered the points home as well, and Shadow Veterans' Affairs Minister, Michael McCormack, really did some heavy lifting. We got it done, and thankfully, they're no longer attacking veterans. But equally concerning is this push to sell off Defence bases across the country, whether it's in Perth, Sydney, Melbourne, and elsewhere. One of the things we've always had with the ADF is a close connection with our capital cities. When World War One and World War Two happened, and we needed to recruit Australians to go and fight, they came largely out of our capital cities. And so now, to sell off estate and bases in our capital cities, it's just going to sever that link. It's also an attack on the history, the identity, and the traditions of the ADF as well, all for less than $2 billion which is nothing. So, we're going to fight this all the way. If you can get online, Senator James Paterson has a petition. Please sign that. Send a strong message – we're not going to let Labor sell off our heritage.

MARK LEVY: Alright. Well, we'll come to the Coalition's energy policy in just a moment. But I do need to ask you about One Nation. Wouldn't be a catch-up between you and me, if we don't mention One Nation. I know Pauline Hanson is not your favourite person in the world at the moment, but she has said this last night on News 24 in relation to this supposed power-sharing potential agreement between the Coalition and One Nation. Here's Pauline Hanson, who thinks that your party will work with her.

*EXCERPT PLAYS*

What do you make of those comments, Andrew? And do you know anything about a power-sharing agreement between One Nation and the Coalition?

ANDREW HASTIE: Well, firstly, I agree with Pauline Hanson that we've got to get rid of the Albanese government. That is our objective. That's always been my objective. And I'm glad she's waking up to the reality that chopping at the Coalition is not going to get us any closer to that objective. As for a power-sharing arrangement, Barnaby Joyce came out and said he'd been talking to very senior Liberals. Angus Taylor didn't speak to Barnaby Joyce, Deputy Leader Jane Hume didn't speak to Barnaby Joyce, James Paterson, Jonno Duniam, myself – we're all in the leadership group – none of us have spoken to Barnaby Joyce. So, I think this is a figment of Barnaby's imagination. There's been no discussion about a power sharing arrangement, that's for sure.

MARK LEVY: He's doubled down overnight. So, you think he's making it up, do you?

ANDREW HASTIE: Well, I don't know if he's making it up, but someone's masquerading out there as a very senior Liberal, but they're unknown to us in the core leadership group of the Parliamentary party.

MARK LEVY: So, you can say here today, as a senior member of the Liberal Party and of the Coalition and the front bench, that no power sharing agreement and nothing on the table as yet in the lead up to the 2028 election?

ANDREW HASTIE: Exactly. We're focused on winning outright – that should be our objective. I want every single Australian to put Liberal or National at the top of their ballot – number one, that's what I want. Let's see where it all lands on the night of the election and the days after. But you certainly don't negotiate your position away 18 months out from an election.

MARK LEVY: Can you win it outright though off the back of the polls, Andrew? If the main goal here is for One Nation and the Coalition to oust the Albanese government – and I think there's a lot of people listening right now who would say, "Oh, for goodness' sake, we can't go another three years with this mob” – is there going to come a time where reality sets in and you will end up having to do some sort of deal with One Nation, yes or no?

ANDREW HASTIE: Well, Mark, I'm not a bed wetter. I'm not going to wet the bed and run off to Pauline hoping that she'll change my sheets and save me. I want to win outright, and that's the objective for the next 18 months. Again, it's a decision for the Australian people, but we shouldn't pre-empt them by trying to read their minds. I think we should just do everything we can to win government and defeat the Albanese government.

MARK LEVY: Alright, a couple of quick ones before you go. The Coalition's energy policy. I spoke to Dan Tehan yesterday. I think there's plenty of merit in this, and we need to get some common sense back into our energy debate. And quite clearly, the path to renewables is not working – it's unachievable and unrealistic. And I think what you guys are proposing makes sense, and hopefully it will start driving down our power bills but also giving us some reliability in our grid as well, Andrew.

ANDREW HASTIE: Absolutely. We've got this plan to scrap Net Zero, of course, repeal the Climate Change Act Bill, which is pretty much enlivens all of Labor's Net Zero ideology throughout our legal system. We're going to remove the safeguard mechanism, which is a heavy tax on heavy industry. For mums and dads out there, for tradies and farmers, we're going to repeal the fuel efficiency standard and stop the tax on their Utes and SUVs. We're going to revoke the four offshore wind energy zones across this country – for me in WA, that's the Bunbury zone but down south your way, Illawarra up north, the Hunter region. And we're also going to repeal the legislative prohibition on nuclear power. We're not going to build power as a government, but we're certainly going to remove the moratorium and allow capital markets and the private sector to give it a shot because we believe all options for energy should be on the table.

MARK LEVY: Yep, couldn't agree more. Before you go, there's been a lot of debate over here in the east. We haven't got a performer for the grand final pregame entertainment. Everyone's coming out of the woodwork. We've got Shannon Noll, we've got John Stevens putting up their hand after Tones and I said no thanks – she was given a late deal, apparently. If you've got an open cheque book, Andrew Hastie, given you're the card-carrying number one ticket holder for the Perth Bears, who would you have as the pre-game entertainment this year in the NRL?

ANDREW HASTIE: It reveals my age a little bit, but Wolfmother would be alright. They're Sydney-based, got a bit of energy, and they channel the vibe. It's always been AC/DC or a bit of heavy rock at half time - I think Wolfmother would be a good pick.

MARK LEVY: And for those people that aren't familiar with Wolfmother, Andrew Hastie is about to sing us the lyrics from one of their main songs. Go!

ANDREW HASTIE: Oh no, mate.

MARK LEVY: It was worth a try.

ANDREW HASTIE: It was worth a try. Mate, there's always Acca Dacca, Metallica, but they're all getting a bit old. I can't make them any younger. I did think of Nickelback, but that would just be punishing people, wouldn't it?

MARK LEVY: Mate, I don't think we can get Nickelback. Let's stick to Australia, that's the main thing. Andrew, good to catch up, mate. We'll do it in a couple of weeks.

ANDREW HASTIE: Thanks, mate. Cheers, mate.

[ENDS]