THE HON ANDREW HASTIE MP
SHADOW MINISTER FOR DEFENCE
SHADOW MINISTER FOR DEFENCE INDUSTRY
SHADOW MINISTER FOR DEFENCE PERSONNEL
FEDERAL MEMBER FOR CANNING

TRANSCRIPT
INTERVIEW WITH MARK LEVY, 2GB

WEDNESDAY 26 FEBRUARY 2025

Topics: Chinese warships off Australia’s coast, 90% of ADF applicants withdrawing under Labor.

MARK LEVY: I thought we'd catch up with Andrew Hastie to have a closer look at this. He's the Shadow Defence Minister, he joins me now. Andrew, good morning to you.

ANDREW HASTIE: Good morning, Mark.

MARK LEVY: Well, mate, I started the program this morning shaking my head, and I said, what does this mean for and say for our Defence capabilities and Defence readiness? Why is our first line of defence a Virgin Australia pilot? Where is our Navy? And are we prepared for any potential attacks on our shores, or is the government asleep at the wheel like they are on a few other issues at the moment? Do you share those concerns?

ANDREW HASTIE: Mark, I do share those concerns, and it's really important your listeners understand the larger frame. China is undergoing the biggest peacetime military buildup since 1945. They've built a blue-water navy, which is a navy that can project around the globe, and they've sent it down through Philippine waters, the Coral Sea, past Sydney into the Tasman Sea, where they've conducted two live-fire exercises, disrupting up to 50 flights. And then, of course, they're inside our Exclusive Economic Zone off Tasmania. This is a message of strength from the Chinese military and the Chinese government, and our Prime Minister has shown himself to be weak because he doesn't have an answer for it. In fact, he's been at pains to explain it away as being within international law. Now that might be technically right, but that misses the deeper subtext, and that is China is now in our backyard, and they've demonstrated that we don't have the will to insist on our national interest and mutual respect. That's why we have great concerns about this. We also need to invest in our Defence Force, it's as simple as that. We've had 25 years of under investment, although the Coalition did lift Defence spending over our nine years in government. But Labor has taken the Defence Force backwards, and inflation, of course, is eating into every single bit of the Defence budget. We've added AUKUS to the Defence budget, and we're seeing a whole range of capabilities run down under the Albanese Government.

MARK LEVY: Well, Andrew, I mean, I just can't wrap my head around why we've got the Prime Minister and the Defence Minister trying to downplay this. I mean, quite clearly, this is the Chinese trying to bully Australia, trying to intimidate us. We all know what used to happen in the schoolyard when it came to the bully. You've got to stand up to them, otherwise the bully wins the day. We can't allow the Chinese to just continue to flirt with our coastline and the Australian government not know anything about it, surely?

ANDREW HASTIE: That's right, Mark and over the last two years, we've had a number of incidences where the Chinese military has conducted dangerous and provocative manoeuvres with our ADF personnel. With our P-8 Poseidon, we had chaff fired at it by a Chinese fighter. Our Navy divers who were underwater had a sonar pulse from a Chinese destroyer. And on each of those occasions, over the last two years, the Prime Minister failed to raise this at a political level and insist on mutual respect from the Chinese government. So this is a failure of political leadership but it's also very concerning that the Prime Minister is at odds with the Defence Minister. When did the Defence Force know? Did they find out through the Virgin aircraft? We're going to pursue that this morning at estimates, which kicked off about 30 minutes ago. But these are really important questions. And I think again, the lesson is we've got to be strong, and we need to invest more in our Defence Force, particularly in this increasingly dangerous world. There's a lot of uncertainty for Australia, given our geographical isolation. We need to be able to stand on our own two feet and defend our shores.

MARK LEVY: I look forward to those questions and the potential answers that are put forward by those in Senate estimates. The concerning thing for most Australians, I feel, is that our Defence Department and our government knew nothing about it. Now, why we have a Virgin Australia pilot alerting air services that then tell the Defence Department is beyond me. The other concerning point to this is we've got US delegates moored in Sydney Harbor – they're aware of what's going on, they're monitoring the situation. Yet our elected officials, our Defence Department, know nothing about it. That, to me, just sounds these alarm bells to suggest that, well, hang on, if there was to be an attack in Australia, are we prepared and are we going to know about it?

ANDREW HASTIE: Well, Mark, we're going to uncover when Defence knew about this. But certainly, you could put this up to a form of psychological warfare – alerting a Virgin aircraft of this live-fire exercise by the Chinese flotilla. That's designed to cause all sorts of confusion and as we know, on Friday, there were up to 50 flights disrupted. So this is definitely a form of psychological warfare. And what's really troubling is that the Prime Minister has claimed to fix the relationship with China, yet four years ago, all we had was wolf warrior diplomacy, where the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs was putting out mean tweets. Now we have gunboat diplomacy, where we've got three warships off our coast, disrupting our flight paths with live-fire exercises, and without notifying the Australian Government. That's a big, big problem.

MARK LEVY: Absolutely. And you're right, I mean, the Prime Minister has been obsessed with promoting himself as a stabiliser, really, hasn't he, between Australia and China, particularly on trade. Do you think he's taking too soft a stance on national security and letting them do whatever they want? Because that's what it looks like to me.

ANDREW HASTIE: Absolutely. We don't want stability through weakness, which is what Anthony Albanese is offering. We want stability through strength and mutual respect. And the only way you have strength and mutual respect is if you have a strong ADF, you have a strong industrial base in this country, and under Labor, we're going backwards on both fronts. That's why, under Peter Dutton, we're going to invest in our Defence Force, we're going to fix the recruiting and retention crisis, we're going to make sure we're combat ready, but we're also going to invest in the Australian industrial base. We need to be able to make things again and be self-sufficient, both in peace and in war.

MARK LEVY: Alight, well, that's an interesting point, because in a matter of weeks, you could be the defence minister. If you were in that position and in that portfolio today, what would be your response and what would be your advice to a Coalition Prime Minister in Peter Dutton?

ANDREW HASTIE: Our critique so far of the Albanese Government is that they've failed in their political stance on this issue. They haven't been transparent, and they haven't stood up for the national interest and insisted on mutual respect. That means the Prime Minister should be picking up the phone to his Chinese counterparts and making his case. He hasn't. He's explained it away in press conferences as being within international law, which is beside the point. Peter Dutton is a strong leader, he's got a backbone, he loves this country, and he'll stand up for our national interest and put Australians first. That's what we want in our leadership. As for Defence, we need to invest in our Navy – we absolutely need to invest in our Navy. We only have five crews for seven of our frigates. We've decommissioned one frigate, and the next frigates that we're going to get – the general-purpose frigate – won't come online until the end of the decade. So what we're going to see is the Navy getting weaker before it gets stronger. That's why it's so important that we arrest this slide into weakness, and we build up our Defence Force with strength.

MARK LEVY: Geez, it's a concern, isn't it? It is a big, big concern. While I've got you, Andrew, on another matter. The Australian reports today that almost 90 per cent of applications to serve with the Australian Defence Force were withdrawn last year, and the average processing time has blown out to more than eight months. The Defence Department told Senate estimates that 69,821 people had applied to join the ADF in 2024 but 62,271 withdrew their applications. That's an incredible figure. What's going on?

ANDREW HASTIE: It's a shambolic disgrace, Mark. Young Australians want to join the Defence Force, they want to serve our country, they want to wear the uniform, and they are facing all sorts of administrative hurdles. There's a culture of risk aversion within recruitment itself. It's being run by civilians, and I think that in itself is problematic. And of course, we found out through estimates that last year, 90 per cent of applications were withdrawn. So we're losing young Australians who would be great soldiers, sailors and aviators. We're losing them to other sectors of the economy, and right now, we're not even hitting our recruitment targets. So we need to fix recruiting, because the most important thing in the ADF, first and foremost, is our people. We need to get good people, we need to hold on to good people, because you can have all the best war fighting platforms in the world, but if you don't have the will to fight, if you don't have tough, robust Australians, you've got nothing.

MARK LEVY: Yep, and you know better than most. Thank you for your service, Andrew. The sooner we have you in that Defence portfolio as the Minister responsible, the better, if you ask me. We need strong leadership, and we need strong action, given what's happening off our coast at the moment. Look forward to those answers and questions in Senate estimates later on today. Appreciate your time.

ANDREW HASTIE: Thanks, Mark. A pleasure.

[ENDS]