THE HON ANDREW HASTIE MP
SHADOW MINISTER FOR INDUSTRY AND SOVEREIGN CAPABILITY
FEDERAL MEMBER FOR CANNING

TRANSCRIPT
INTERVIEW WITH MICHAEL McLAREN, 2GB

Monday 9 March 2026

Topics: Conflict in the Middle East; fuel security.

E&OE……………………………………

MICHAEL McLAREN: Andrew, great to speak with you. Thank you for your time.

ANDREW HASTIE: Good afternoon. Michael, good to be with you.

MICHAEL McLAREN: I suppose the legacy, if you could leave one legacy to Parliament that would be enduring and so needed, would be to change the mindset of Australian politicians on both sides of the aisle – let's be blunt, I know Jim Molan was frustrated with the Liberals at times as well – and that is to prepare for the worst, rather than just rest on our laurels in times of peace, right?

ANDREW HASTIE: That's exactly right. We want a country that's resilient, self-sufficient, and that can survive a strategic crisis, which is what's unfolding in the Middle East right now. We've seen the price of oil go up, we've seen the cost of containerised shipping go up, we've seen risk premiums go up. We're already experiencing some of the highest inflation under the Labor government. It's about to get a whole lot harder for regular Australians with the price of fuel skyrocketing.

MICHAEL McLAREN: Well, that's right, someone just reminded me on the text line that the height of Covid, the Labor Party hammered Scott Morrison for not putting aside a requisite stockpile of vaccines. Saying that, you know, what did he say, “this isn't a race” or something like that. They hammered him for that. Well, many would be saying, well, hang on, vaccines is one thing, what about the stockpile of fuel?

ANDREW HASTIE: Well, we are a diesel economy here in Australia. Our resources sector operates off diesel, our trucks operate off diesel, our farmers operate off diesel. We will be very, very vulnerable if our liquid security is compromised over the over the coming weeks.

MICHAEL McLAREN: Andrew, sorry, your mobile is just breaking up. I think Andrew's a bit out of town. We'll get him back on. What he's saying is very, very important here. But that's not a bad point from our listeners. We're not here to blame the previous mob and to go back over old coals. But you know, it's a bit rich when you get stuck into Scott Morrison for not having the requisite stockpile of vaccines and say you weren't prepared for the crisis, and now you're saying it's all sweet with fuel, when clearly, it's not. I think the line is fixed up, the wonders of modern technology. Sorry, Andrew, you were saying?

ANDREW HASTIE: Sorry, Michael, I'm on the way to the airport to fly to Parliament, and it's a bit patchy. Look, yes, we do need to build resilience in this country, and it's on Labor now to reassure Australians that the government has a strategy in place to ensure that there are adequate fuel supplies to our nation. Those Coles and Woolies trucks that deliver our groceries are powered by diesel. The pharmaceuticals that get to our regional towns and our outer metro areas are all powered by diesel as well. So there's a lot of stake for the country. And if I cast people's minds back in 1940, many wouldn't have been alive then, but rationing was introduced to managed shortages caused by World War Two, and back then, we had very limited refining capacity. So this is high stakes, and the government needs to get on with the job of reassuring the Australian people.

MICHAEL McLAREN: Well, I agree with that, but what do we do long term? Because this will come and go. I know it's occupying every scintilla of people's attention at the moment but in a couple of weeks’ time, we'll probably be looking at something else. So what do we do long term in this country to change that mindset? We're panicking because we haven't prepared. How do we change the psyche in Canberra so that we are prepared for, yes, the unlikely, but not impossible, which is what we're dealing with now?

ANDREW HASTIE: That's right. I think we've got to start looking at a sovereign industry to protect us, and that means drilling for oil, extracting oil and refining oil. Now, that's not very popular for people out there, but the worst thing that could happen to us, as a trading nation, is to have our supply lines severed. So long term, we've got to have a conversation in this country about what we absolutely need to survive and I think liquid fuel is one of those things. We do have liquid fuel or oil down in the Bass Strait, we've got it at Beetaloo Basin – these are options that we should start talking about and thinking about, because nothing is more important than our security as a country.

MICHAEL McLAREN: The late Jim Molan used to tell me in the wee smaller hours of the morning that from a defence point of view, it's one thing to talk about having the right missiles, or the drone technology, or the frigates, or the submarines or whatever it was – you've got to have your lethality at your disposal. But the rest of the defence story – and I'm sure you relate to this – we so often overlook. Fuel security, which we're speaking about. Food security, a very significant percentage of the world's fertilizers come through the Strait of Hormuz – well, they're not coming through at the moment – that affects yield and crop production. We've got to look at energy security, water security. I mean, on a lot of these issues, we just have not done the heavy lifting, have we?

ANDREW HASTIE: No, that's right and my belief is markets should do these things where possible, but governments should do them where necessary. And for too long, we haven't priced in geopolitical risk. We're now at war in the Middle East and what is Iran doing? They're targeting our supply lines. That's why they're going after refineries in the Middle East and the Gulf states, they're going after smelters, they're going after gas terminals. They're going after the very thing that keeps our economy going. The regime is smart, in a sense, because I know that's where we're absolutely vulnerable. And so for future, we've got to start thinking about how we protect our country, and that's the conversation that we need to have. Most regular Australians get this – there's no argument from them – but we've actually got to take action. That's why the Labor government has got to get out there and reassure us that they're taking the right measures to ensure that we have adequate supply across the economy.

MICHAEL McLAREN: I mean, part of that adequate supply though, I think it was when Angus Taylor was actually the energy minister, we did this deal in Louisiana. But, I mean, there's not much point having the fuel there. If, as you say, the supply lines are cut, it's not getting here, we've got some on the outskirts of Amsterdam, it looks good on paper but if it's not in a refinery in Geelong or the outskirts of Brisbane, it's not much good to us, right?

ANDREW HASTIE: Yeah, that's right. But Angus as energy minister also made sure that we invested in our diesel storage program across the country. A lot of tanks were built alongside the private sector to increase our storage, and we made sure that we had a minimum stock holding obligation as well. But there's no point litigating the past, we've got to look for the future, and we need to have sovereign capacity. People want results, that's all they care about. One thing I'll tell you, Michael: in politics, no one rewards you for what you did yesterday, it's what you plan to do tomorrow. And we've got to start talking about how we make this country more secure, so they need to hear more of that.

MICHAEL McLAREN: Just finally, there will be some, even on your own side absolute free marketeers. You've come up against them, I know. They'll say, "steady on, Andrew, we're not having state controls, Central Casting stuff here with let the market decide." Well, the market let us down during covid, the market is letting us down now, the market will let us down in the future. That's not to say that we have a command-and-control economy. But as you say, in the strategic areas, we can't just let the market rip, because often when it rips, it doesn't do us many favours.

ANDREW HASTIE: No, the government has a really important role to partner with the private sector and to invest alongside them, where capital costs are really intense and intensive. I'll give an example: Silicon Valley could have been named germanium valley, but it's called Silicon Valley because the U.S. Air Force insisted on its transistors being made from silicon. There's this myth about Silicon Valley that it was started by a bunch of guys in their garage writing code – it was actually U.S. government contracts which developed that whole industry over in the U.S. Government has a role – it shouldn't centralise everything, but it absolutely has a role partnering with private sector and delivering results for the Australian people.

MICHAEL McLAREN: Great to speak. We'll speak again throughout the year, I know. All the best of luck with trying to change that mindset. It's really got to happen and I know you know that. Andrew, thank you for your time.

ANDREW HASTIE: My pleasure, Michael. Thank you.

[ENDS]