THE HON ANDREW HASTIE MP
SHADOW MINISTER FOR DEFENCE
SHADOW MINISTER FOR DEFENCE INDUSTRY
SHADOW MINISTER FOR DEFENCE PERSONNEL
FEDERAL MEMBER FOR CANNING

TRANSCRIPT
INTERVIEW WITH SALLY SARA, ABC RADIO NATIONAL

WEDNESDAY 23 APRIL 2025

Topics: Coalition’s increase to defence spending, combat roles in the ADF.

E&OE...

SALLY SARA: The Shadow Defence Minister, Andrew Hastie, joins me now. Andrew Hastie, welcome back to Breakfast.

ANDREW HASTIE: Thanks, Sally, good to be with you.

SALLY SARA: Why does the Coalition think that we need to spend more on Defence right now?

ANDREW HASTIE: Well under Labor, we've seen $80 billion worth of cuts, delays and reprioritisations to the Defence budget and morale is at an all-time low. We also have the addition of AUKUS to the Defence budget, which is a structural imposition, and without additional funding, AUKUS will not succeed. And so we've taken the hard decision in the national interest to invest in Defence which will see our Defence spending go to 2.4 per cent over the forwards, or 2.5 per cent of GDP over five years, and then within 10 years, we'll get to three per cent of GDP.

SALLY SARA: Defence is a huge portfolio. What's your plan as to where to spend it within Defence?

ANDREW HASTIE: We've already committed to reinstating the additional fourth F-35 fighter squadron, which is really important, which all take our fleet of F-35s to 100. We're going to tackle the recruiting and retention crisis, which Labor is overseeing. We're going to urgently progress the AUKUS partnership out in Western Australia, which has been delayed. We're going to get Henderson going and our strategic shipbuilding program – that's also at risk under Labor with delays – we need to build our general purpose frigates. And we're going to boost sustainment, which has been run down under Labor as well. When cuts go in, it's always the sustainment of our Defence Force and we need our ships running, we need our planes flying, and we need our troops training. And under Labor with the cuts to sustainment that has impacted our fighting capability.

SALLY SARA: Where will the money come from?

ANDREW HASTIE: Well, we'll release our costings in due course, as is practice, but we will make the investments as necessary, and we're going to grow the economy as well. This country has gone backwards under Labor, and we're going to grow the economy, obviously, and we're going to invest in Defence. And this isn't a huge increase, by the way, this is –

SALLY SARA: – But we also need to make cuts as well in government spending. We've just had revised growth figures from the IMF overnight. It's very uncertain economic times. Are you expecting that you'll only need to grow the economy, or will you also need to make cuts in other portfolios?

ANDREW HASTIE: We're going to grow the economy. And by the way, this Defence spending has an economic dividend as well. This is the thing that Labor has singularly failed to articulate to the Australian people. Yes, we're investing in our fighting men and women. Yes, we're investing in fighting capabilities, but we're going to revive our industrial base as well. We're going to invest in Australian small and medium enterprises who do fantastic work for Defence, but who have really been hit hard over the last three years under Labor with a lack of job orders. So this is about reviving our industrial base as much as building our fighting capability, which means jobs and opportunity, particularly in places like Western Australia and South Australia. But as Premier Malinauskas has said several times, AUKUS is a national mission. It's not just for Western Australia or South Australia, every single state and territory in this country must be involved, including a host of businesses, which will form part of our critical supply chain. So this is about building our country. This is a nation building endeavour, and I'm very optimistic that this represents a lot of opportunity for young Australians, both in uniform and in industry as well.

SALLY SARA: So Andrew Hastie, I'll bring you back to the question again, will there be government spending cuts in other departments and areas in order to pay for some or all of this increased Defence spending?

ANDREW HASTIE: As I've said, we'll release our costings in due course, but there will always be trade-offs when you're making decisions of state. But what price do we put on defence? And I think with the growth of authoritarian powers, with the war in Ukraine, with the changes in the Indo Pacific region, with the Trump administration moving deeper into an America First perspective and position, we need to be able to defend ourselves. That's the lesson out of Ukraine. We need to be able to stand on our two feet and so what price do we put on defence? We've got to invest and we're making the hard decision to do so. That's why we're taking Defence to three per cent over 10 years, compared to Labor's 2.3 per cent, and in five years, we'll be at 2.5 per cent of GDP.

SALLY SARA: Defence is about trying to look at the potential threats and strategic environment, not only now, but in the future, and calibrating defence accordingly. If there were a confrontation and China were to go into Taiwan militarily, is that a conflict that Australia should be involved in?

ANDREW HASTIE: That is something that would be entirely a decision for the Prime Minister and National Security Cabinet of the day. It's a hypothetical, Sally, and that would be something that only the Prime Minister and their team would decide upon.

SALLY SARA: What do you think?

ANDREW HASTIE: Well, I think it's unwise to speculate about these things. As always, my interest is in defending Australia in whatever circumstance that might be. But it's really important that those sorts of decisions and those sorts of hypotheticals are left to the Prime Minister of the day. The thing we can do, though, is invest in Defence, make sure that we have the best fighting capabilities, that our morale is high, and we have a strong industrial base in the event that our supply chains might be compromised or indeed cut. That's why we're spending more money in Defence over the next 10 years, but particularly over the next five years.

SALLY SARA: You're talking about Australia having a need to stand on its own two feet and be able to defend itself. How does that fit in with AUKUS, which is about working with our allies?

ANDREW HASTIE: Well, AUKUS is actually about building our sovereign capability in this country. We won't receive our first Virginia-class submarines if we haven't demonstrated that we are sovereign ready by 2030 or thereabouts. So there's a couple of stages to AUKUS. The first stage will be the establishment of Submarine Rotational Force-West in 2027 which is when we'll have Americans and British submarines alongside in Perth. And then we've got to demonstrate that we can own, operate, regulate, maintain and dispose of a nuclear reactor as part of our commitment for AUKUS. Now, we have to demonstrate a growth in our industrial capacity. We have to grow our education system so that we can raise up future scientists and engineers and all the special trades that we need to support AUKUS. So yes, it is about an alliance, but we have to demonstrate that we can do it on our own two feet, otherwise it's going to fall over. Under Labor, it's going backwards. There hasn't been a sense of urgency from Richard Marles. He's dragged his feet. And if you came out to Western Australia and you drive through the AUKUS catchment where I live, you won't see the roads being built, you'll see a housing shortage, and you'll see bases that look pretty much the way they did three years ago. So we're falling behind on AUKUS, and that's why we're going to invest and get a job going and moving under a Peter Dutton led Coalition government.

SALLY SARA: You're listening to Radio National Breakfast, and you're hearing from the Shadow Defence Minister, Andrew Hastie. Andrew Hastie, do you believe that women should serve in combat roles in the ADF?

ANDREW HASTIE: Yes, the Coalition has a strong position, and that is that all combat roles should be open to men and women.

SALLY SARA: So does that mean women meeting the same –

ANDREW HASTIE: – and I signalled that to the Secretary of Defence, Mr Greg Moriarty, and the Chief of Defence Force last week in my caretaker brief, as part of the caretaker conventions. They have a very clear picture on where the Coalition stands, there's been no change and, frankly, what you've heard in the media over the last few weeks is a shameful and pathetic scare campaign by Richard Marles using our ranks to make a political point. I think our Defence Force deserve more respect than that.

SALLY SARA: To be fair, previously in 2018 you said, "my personal view is the fighting DNA of close combat unit is best preserved when it's exclusively male." In terms of your views now, does that mean that women should meet the same physical standards as men to qualify for combat units or roles?

ANDREW HASTIE: Absolutely. It's one standard for all. The combat roles in the ADF are open to men and women, and the Coalition will insist on one standard for all, which is fair and equitable. And we've got to have high standards, because in combat, there's no second place. You either win or you lose. And we need to win in every situation going forward, and that's why we'll have high standards.

SALLY SARA: Should the Liberal candidate for Whitlam, Ben Britton, should he have been disendorsed for his comments on women in Defence?

ANDREW HASTIE: I understand Mr Britton made a range of comments, and that's why he was disendorsed, that went far beyond comments about combat roles in the ADF. I'll leave it there.

SALLY SARA: There's been some commentary in the media that you've been not so visible in the federal election campaign. Why has that been the case? We haven't seen you out with the Leader as much as some were expecting.

ANDREW HASTIE: It's a good question Sally, and I suppose it's a question that journalists ask. But you know, just because I'm not on camera doesn't mean I'm not working. Since January, I've been to 24 seats across the country. I've done defence forums in a number of seats, in fact, every state and territory less Tasmania. I was at the Port of Darwin with the Leader to announce the Port of Darwin moving back into government approved hands. And you know, I'm working hard. I'm in a 1.2 per cent seat. I've got an important portfolio. Here I am talking to you this morning, I'll be glad to stand next to Peter Dutton later this morning, and we just get on with the job. But just because the media doesn't see it doesn't mean it's not happening.

SALLY SARA: Andrew Hastie, thank you so much for your time this morning.

ANDREW HASTIE: Pleasure. Sally, thank you.

[ENDS]