THE HON ANDREW HASTIE MP
SHADOW MINISTER FOR INDUSTRY AND SOVEREIGN CAPABILITY
FEDERAL MEMBER FOR CANNING

TRANSCRIPT
INTERVIEW WITH SALLY SARA, ABC RN BREAKFAST

Thursday 10 September 2026

Topics: One Nation; immigration; superannuation; social media.

E&OE……………………………………

SALLY SARA: Andrew Hastie is the Shadow Minister for Industry and Sovereign Capability and joins me in the studio this morning. Andrew Hastie, welcome back to Breakfast.

ANDREW HASTIE: Morning, Sally.

SALLY SARA: What do you make of Pauline Hanson's response there?

ANDREW HASTIE: I think it shows her to be weak and glass jawed. I gave her the opportunity to either own her words publicly, or to take it down. She chose neither, and in fact, rather than stepping up as a leader – she claims she could be prime minister – she actually retreated back into cartoons and memes. So, I think we've seen what Pauline Hanson ultimately is about. She's not fit to govern this country, and she's also cast a massive slur on veterans around the country who think that Australian soldiers should hold high standards of conduct on the battlefield. It's actually an attack on veterans, not just attack on me, because you've got to remember more than 20-plus SAS combat veterans were called to give evidence in the Federal Court. Are they traitors too? This question she won't answer, and I think it shows weakness from her.

SALLY SARA: Will you take legal action?

ANDREW HASTIE: I'm not after legal action, particularly when she's financed by Australia's richest person. Why would I walk into a fight that I can't win financially? But yes, I'm going to impose costs politically, and that's why I'm here this morning, telling Australians around this country that what you see is not what you get with Pauline Hanson.

SALLY SARA: The word traitor-it seems like it's a red line for you.

ANDREW HASTIE: It is a red line. It means that you've betrayed your country. They used that word eight times, specifically in the context of me being called to give evidence. I've asked her to either own those words – she's shown that she won't, she's been cowardly – and I've asked her if she won't own it, then to take it down. She's done either, so I think that says everything about her leadership.

SALLY SARA: What's the bigger picture here? When we spoke last month, you said One Nation campaign director James Ashby has got his orders from above to come after you. Who's driving this push?

ANDREW HASTIE: That's a good question. Both James Ashby and Pauline Hanson have enjoyed a nice winter in Europe, paid for by Gina Rinehart. Who knows what's going on here. I'm not making any claim there at all. What I am saying is that James Ashby called me back in April and warned me this was coming. I've taken this over the winter and I'm drawing a line under it today because there are veterans out there who are going through moral trauma based on their service in Afghanistan, and if they're being called traitors as well by inference, well then, I'm not going to stand for that. I'm fighting for veterans as much as for my own reputation.

SALLY SARA: You said this week over the Ben Roberts-Smith matter, "people I trusted have walked away from me or failed to defend me." Who are you talking about?

ANDREW HASTIE: I'm not going to mention any names, but when the mob came, people stepped away. There are people who've stood by me and backed me to the hilt, and they know who they are. But this is an issue that will define who we are as a country and how we respond to these allegations. Now, they're allegations, and they need to be tested in court – that's what will happen. But for her to politicise the whole process, to undermine the rule of law, to use corflutes with the defendant, I think is shameful from her.

SALLY SARA: Tony Abbott has raised questions about the handling of war crimes allegations against special forces soldiers. Has he ever indicated to you that he disagreed with what you did in giving evidence?

ANDREW HASTIE: I've had long chats with Tony. I'll let him explain his position, but he knows exactly where I stand on this issue.

SALLY SARA: Do you regard him as a supporter of yours?

ANDREW HASTIE: I regard Tony as a friend. We don't always agree on issues.

SALLY SARA: Politically, as Federal President of the Liberal Party, has he reached out to you, offered any support as you've been coming under attack?

ANDREW HASTIE: I won't go into personal discussions with Tony, but he's our Federal President – I support him in that. My issue is with Pauline Hanson and One Nation.

SALLY SARA: When you were talking about people stepping away from you for giving evidence, are you referring to former Defence colleagues, or are you referring to people in the realm of politics?

ANDREW HASTIE: It's a bit of both, but that's okay. I don't need to go into that in detail. I was just making the point that what we have discovered, though, is there are thousands, if not millions, of Australians out there who believe in the rule of law, and who want to make sure that our Defence personnel – the men and women who serve in the uniform – are held to a high standard. And frankly, the Chief of the Defence Force and the service chiefs need to enforce that standard. This isn't about politics for them; this is about who our ADF is, what we stand for, and the values that underpin our Defence Force.

SALLY SARA: Let's look at other matters. Opposition Leader Angus Taylor met with the Prime Minister yesterday after writing to him with demands ahead of the government's expected crackdown on immigration. Do you see any scope for Labor and the Coalition to work together on migration?

ANDREW HASTIE: I know we have been in communication with the government, but in the end, we think the Albanese government has failed on immigration. Net overseas migration over the last four years has been way too high. The average Australian – whether they're in Mandurah, in my hometown, or in Melbourne – will tell you the same thing. We've committed to cutting immigration and pegging it to housing completions and I think that's the best way that we can ease the pressure in the housing market, ease the pressure on essential services and infrastructure, and put Australians first, frankly.

SALLY SARA: Would you like to take on the Home Affairs portfolio when your friend and colleague Jonno Duniam departs?

ANDREW HASTIE: Jonno is a great friend and a flatmate here in Canberra. I'm sorry to see him go, and he's done an amazing job. I'll serve wherever Angus wants me to serve. I'm happy in industry. I'm really excited to engage on AI – I think that's a really important committee. I think it was Fran Kelly talking about rogue agents – we're going to discuss all that and more, and what it means for Australia over the next eight weeks or so with this committee. As for Home Affairs, I'm happy to serve wherever the Leader asks me to.

SALLY SARA: What did you make of the comments from South Australian Premier Peter Malinauskas, warning that significant cuts to migration would be an act of economic self-harm in Australia?

ANDREW HASTIE: I think we do need to cut immigration, but we need to do it sensibly. One Nation are throwing all sorts of figures around the place – there's disagreement on their side about what the numbers are. I can tell you now that we are doing very detailed, long discussions based on costing and modelling for our immigration policy. It's very thorough work because we want to get this right for the Australian people, number one, but we also want to get it right for the economy. So, we're going to take a very considered position on this.

SALLY SARA: Let's talk about super. Do you see merit in One Nation's proposal to broaden early access to super?

ANDREW HASTIE: As a cost-of-living relief measure, I thought it was you know a worthy suggestion, but does it stack up? That's not for me to say.

SALLY SARA: Is it inflationary?

ANDREW HASTIE: It could well be very inflationary, and people are already struggling with inflation. Real incomes have flatlined since the end of COVID, and the last thing we'd want to do is pour more heat into the economy with more cash.

SALLY SARA: How do you see the political environment at the moment with One Nation seemingly leapfrogging the Coalition with not fully formed policies, but policy ideas, grabbing the headlines, grabbing the focus? We've seen this pattern repeat several times now.

ANDREW HASTIE: The Australian people will have to make a decision in a year or a year and a half about who they want to govern this country, and in the end, they need to know that the policies before them have been modelled and costed and will actually make them better off. One Nation are trying to win the fight on X and social media – they're coming out very quickly with policies that haven't had the work done behind them. I think in the end they'll get caught out as they've already been caught out with immigration.

SALLY SARA: There are, of course, reports the Coalition was considering a similar policy on super. One Nation also got out ahead of the Coalition on tobacco. Are you worried about leaks within your own ranks?

ANDREW HASTIE: We're not worried about leaks within our own ranks. On tobacco, I think we've demonstrated that we took the time to get the policy right: an 80 per cent excise cut, $200 million for law enforcement to crush these organised criminal gangs who are selling illicit tobacco, particularly to our kids. And then, of course, a $60 million public health program to make sure that people know that smoking, in the end, will kill you.

SALLY SARA: Let's talk about algorithms. The government's plan to allow Australians to opt out of social media algorithms and reduce exposure to harms. Have social media algorithms driven the rise of One Nation and some sense of political fragmentation?

ANDREW HASTIE: I think political polarisation and fragmentation, whether it's on the right and left, has been driven by social media. I think we're now a far more emotional electorate because it's a lot easier to watch a 30-second reel that gets you going rather than read a considered argument. This is the challenge of modern politics. It's happening on the left and the right. I think what Australians really want is sensible policy that speaks to middle Australia. There are a whole bunch of people in the centre – centre right, centre left – who just want responsible government. Sure, we're all on social media now, but in the end, social media is no way to govern a country, as we're finding out with Senator Hanson.

SALLY SARA: With this targeting by One Nation, and also the debate back and forth between you and Pauline Hanson and Barnaby Joyce and others, do you expect that this is going to worsen?

ANDREW HASTIE: I've already taken five months of abuse from these people, and this week is about drawing a line under it all. I'm in the fight, whether I like it or not, and I'd much rather take my opponents head on.

SALLY SARA: Are you taking the bait, perhaps?

ANDREW HASTIE: No, I'm not taking the bait. So far, I have not imposed cost, and I will impose cost on One Nation.

SALLY SARA: Andrew Hastie, good to have you back in the studio. Thank you for coming in this morning.

[ENDS]