THE HON ANDREW HASTIE MP
SHADOW MINISTER FOR INDUSTRY AND SOVEREIGN CAPABILITY
FEDERAL MEMBER FOR CANNING

TRANSCRIPT
INTERVIEW WITH ANDREW CLENNELL, SUNDAY AGENDA

Sunday 13 September 2026

Topics:.

E&OE……………………………………

ANDREW CLENNELL: Joining me live is the Shadow Industry and Sovereign Capability Minister Andrew Hastie. Thanks for your time. Sorry to play that cartoon again. I'll get to that in a second. Do you support the Opposition in the Senate voting against these 2024 legislation changes? The original changes made it easier to prosecute war criminals, according to the government.

ANDREW HASTIE: Well, let's go back to 2024 when this legislation was passed. It was passed on the voices, which meant no one opposed it, including Pauline Hanson and One Nation. The Shadow Attorney General, Michaelia Cash, had carriage of the Bill – there were no issues identified back then.  Oftentimes in the Senate, the Coalition votes on motions as part of a tactical move and we wanted to see the Albanese government remove the allied health cap on veterans of $5,000. We think it's egregious, we want to see it removed. And sometimes you vote for things in order to get the more substantive issue over the line, which was the allied health cap.

ANDREW CLENNELL: Because this is what Pauline Hanson said in a tweet during the week. She said, "Andrew Hastie says he believes in the rule of law. In 2024, Labor retrospectively rewrote Australia's war crimes law, backdating it to 2002. That change is now being relied on in Afghanistan war crimes prosecutions have passed on the voices, so we don't know where Mr Hastie stood.” What's your reaction to that?

ANDREW HASTIE: We don't know where Pauline Hanson stood in 2024 because she didn't vote no. So, what she's saying here? Let's go back to the general principle here. The general principle here is that Australian soldiers don't execute prisoners. That's the general principle, and the law must support that general principle. As I understood, the amendment in 2024 was to bring our law in line with a tactical application of the Geneva Code, whereby if you have an enemy combatant who's in your control – has surrendered or is incapacitated or wounded – they're out of the fight, which is the English for the French “hors de combat.” And so, the real issue is here: where do we stand on prisoners and how we treat them? This photo here from World War Two, it’s a picture of Leonard Siffleet, a sergeant from Gunnedah, who in 1943, was beheaded by the Japanese. He was an Australian Commando with the M Special Unit and was captured and beheaded. I think it's really important that we uphold high standards of conduct. Pauline Hanson needs to explain to the Australian people why she wants to lower the standard of battlefield conduct for Australian soldiers.

ANDREW CLENNELL: It's been put to me that the Opposition, though, is considering changing its stance on the issue of war crimes and perhaps wanting them tried in a military court. Do you have a view on the fact Afghan veterans, including Ben Roberts-Smith, are being tried in civilian courts?

ANDREW HASTIE: The system is what it is, and anyone who's trying to run arguments against the process now is is doing people like Ben Roberts-Smith no favours. I think he deserves a fair trial. I think he deserves the presumption of innocence. And in the end, I come back to the general principle. Do we think it's okay to execute prisoners? They're very severe allegations.

ANDREW CLENNELL: Do you think Pauline Hanson thinks it's okay to execute prisoners?

ANDREW HASTIE: Well, she has got to come out and make her position very clear. What's her standard for battlefield conduct? Is it okay to execute prisoners in some circumstances? Now let's go back to World War II, when Adolf Hitler issued the Commando Order, which was a blanket direction to execute all Allied special operations personnel once captured. Erwin Rommel, his field marshal, didn't follow the order, and after the war, the British SAS went back into Europe hunting Nazi war criminals who executed members of the Special Operations Executive – over 350 Allied men and women were executed on site. I think there's a pretty strong precedent dating all the way back to World War II that we don't execute prisoners. So, Pauline Hanson, let's have a conversation. Someone who never served overseas, never worn our uniform, wants to lecture me about battlefield conduct. I'm game for the fight.

ANDREW CLENNELL: Alright. Why is there so much sympathy for Ben Roberts-Smith? Do you think a lot of Australians just think anything goes? I mean, they're sent over there to kill people anyway. Do you think a lot of Australians have that attitude?

ANDREW HASTIE: I don't think people fully understand what's going on, and Pauline Hanson has weaponised this whole process ever since this started in April this year. She has weaponised and politicised this legal process. I have been troubled by some people. I've door knocked people in my constituency where I've talked about this issue directly. They've been very angry, and I've asked them, are you okay with murdering war? And they say yes. “Are you okay with raping in war?” And a person said yes, and I've got to tell you, I'm not happy with that at all.

ANDREW CLENNELL: This is door knocking?

ANDREW HASTIE: This is door knocking. I think it's really important that political leaders lead and set a standard.

ANDREW CLENNELL: Could that person explain why they think rape in war is okay?

ANDREW HASTIE: Well, they're Aussie diggers. They're our they're our guys.

ANDREW CLENNELL: So, they can do whatever they want?

ANDREW HASTIE: Yeah, exactly. And my point is, Anzac is much bigger than just being ferocious on the battlefield – it’s also about our conduct. When you put the Australian flag on the left shoulder, there are values represented in that flag, and we do the right thing. That's what distinguishes us from ISIS, Russian soldiers or anyone else who executes people on the battlefield.

ANDREW CLENNELL: I guess there's a view – that I assume Gina Rinehart, Kerry Stokes and Pauline Hanson have – that Ben Roberts-Smith is innocent, that he didn't do it.

ANDREW HASTIE: Sure, people are entitled to that view, and those allegations will be tested in court.

ANDREW CLENNELL: What do you think?

ANDREW HASTIE: It's not for me to say, and I would not want to compromise the integrity of this process. My position has always been that the rule of law must be upheld, and there's a process here, and he deserves the presumption of innocence.

ANDREW CLENNELL: This cartoon that you've objected to this week, first ran in July. Why bring it up now?

ANDREW HASTIE: Well, they dropped it midway through a defamation proceeding that I was defending myself in. I was sitting in the WA Supreme Court when I found out about it. I was hardly going to step out of the Supreme Court and make a make noise about it.

ANDREW CLENNELL: Sorry, remind me of the action. I know you've had a few proceedings underway.

ANDREW HASTIE: Sure, let me tell you what the Deputy Premier of Western Australia, Rita Saffioti, said – Labor member. She was called as a defence witness. She stepped outside the court after giving evidence, and she said, "this is a bizarre case and a waste of the court's time.” It’s still underway.

ANDREW CLENNELL: Who are you being sued by?

ANDREW HASTIE: By a man called Greg Poland.

ANDREW CLENNELL: And what's it about?

ANDREW HASTIE: We don't have the time, mate and the airwaves can't take all the detail. But let me say this –

ANDREW CLENNELL: But why talk about it now instead of in July? If the defo action is still underway.

ANDREW HASTIE: It’s a totally separate proceeding. My point is that I was in the middle of a court proceeding. I didn't have time at the time.

ANDREW CLENNELL: Is it because – someone reported yesterday – you found out you're not going to be a witness in the Ben Roberts-Smith case, and you've got a bit more freedom now?

ANDREW HASTIE: Exactly right. There's a number of things. There was a non-publication order made which protected the identities of the witnesses involved in the proceedings. I'm not on that list.

ANDREW CLENNELL: Okay. Am I right in saying that, for some reason, you've forgiven Barnaby Joyce, but not Pauline Hanson? He's no longer a lying coward to you, but she is? I saw him off the plane from Canberra, and he talked to me about this and you'd been texting him at the same time on Thursday evening.

ANDREW HASTIE: Yeah, I had I had a text exchange with Barnaby Joyce. He's always been a mate, right?

ANDREW CLENNELL: You just called him a lying coward. I'm curious.

ANDREW HASTIE: I did.

ANDREW CLENNELL: Well, that's a pretty big accusation. Are you saying, what, now he's not a lying coward?

ANDREW HASTIE: Well, at the time, he stood up and defended Pauline Hanson and said that she hadn't called me a traitor when it was clear as day that she had. Barnaby –

ANDREW CLENNELL: Was he lying or not?

ANDREW HASTIE: He explained his position and he said that he didn't know about the cartoon, and then he went on and apologised. So, I accept that. I accept his explanation.

ANDREW CLENNELL: But she's still a lying coward?

ANDREW HASTIE: She's still a lying coward. I'm not backing down. I put the challenge to her - she could have accepted that she'd got it wrong and pulled it down, but she refused to do so, and she's doubled down.

ANDREW CLENNELL: People say it's satire.

ANDREW HASTIE: Well, people with double standards. They got their knickers in a knot over the Gina Rinehart ABC satirical video, but this is okay, to be called a traitor. I'll say this about Barnaby Joyce – I feel sorry for the bloke. He left a party that made him deputy prime minister twice to jump in with this rabble. There are no principles; they're all over the shop, and he's out there every week cleaning up after them.

ANDREW CLENNELL: Well, it was his decision, I guess. There was an article over the weekend that said that Gina Rinehart repeatedly said "traitor" about you to your colleague, friend, and backer Henry Pike at a lunch at her mansion in Noosa in January. Is that true? Has Henry Pike told you that?

ANDREW HASTIE: I've heard that story from Henry, yes.

ANDREW CLENNELL: So, has Pauline Hanson borrowed Gina Rinehart's term, in your view?

ANDREW HASTIE: I don't know.

ANDREW CLENNELL: What did Gina Rinehart say to him, as far as you're aware?

ANDREW HASTIE: What you read in that story is what I've heard. Henry is a very decent man, a man of integrity, and I take whatever he says seriously. So, I think that is the prevailing view. Again, Pauline Hanson has to explain why the other 20-odd combat veterans who gave evidence at the court are also traitors to their country.

ANDREW CLENNELL: What's your view of Gina Rinehart then?

ANDREW HASTIE: I don't really have a view. We're not friends, obviously.

ANDREW CLENNELL: Did you decide to take a stand this week because you were so fed up with being assailed every day on the front page of the West Australian?

ANDREW HASTIE: There are a number of things. Yeah, for sure. I've copped it for the last six months, and sometimes you've just got to draw a line in the sand because weakness is provocative. People want strength. These guys thought I was weak, and so last week, as I said to Barnaby in text, I will continue. Consider last week a demonstration. They haven't seen anything yet. I'll go all the way with One Nation if they want.

ANDREW CLENNELL: Will you go all the way with Gina Rinehart and Kerry Stokes – that's the question. Do you believe they're out to get you?

ANDREW HASTIE: It doesn't matter what I think. I can only do what I can control, and at the moment, we have to defeat Labor. In Sydney over the weekend, I've spoken to a number of businesspeople, they are saying: you've got to win the next election, we can't go any longer under these settings.

ANDREW CLENNELL: And you think One Nation are getting in the way of that?

ANDREW HASTIE: One Nation are absolutely getting in the way. They're targeting people on our side. We're trying to focus the fight on Labor. These guys are coming after us.

ANDREW CLENNELL: I mean, you did call them lying cowards.

ANDREW HASTIE: Well, yeah. I mean, they call me a traitor eight times. I call them lying cowards, and they drop to the floor like a string puppet. One punch to the jaw; they drop to the floor like a string puppet.

ANDREW CLENNELL: Were you one of the key whistleblowers against Ben Roberts-Smith when it came to the journalists who investigated and reported the case because of your credibility? The fact you're more senior, it makes me feel like they felt more confident about running it because they've been talking to you.

ANDREW HASTIE: I think they're making example of me in order to intimidate other witnesses who are far more material to –

ANDREW CLENNELL: But were you one of the key whistleblowers to the journalists?

ANDREW HASTIE: Well, they're not whistleblowers. I don't like this term.

ANDREW CLENNELL: Were you one of the key sources to the journos?

ANDREW HASTIE: One of the journalists who wrote the story came to me and said, I have you in 2012 at Syachow on a mission that is at the heart of some of these allegations, and you're a public figure, and I'm going to write the story. So sometimes, as a public figure, the stories come to you. And yes, I was present in October 2012 at the village of Syachow, where some of the allegations are said to have occurred.

ANDREW CLENNELL: That's not a subject of the charges, though, is it?

ANDREW HASTIE: It is.

ANDREW CLENNELL: Okay, you weren't an eyewitness then?

ANDREW HASTIE: No, I wasn't an eyewitness, and that was established in the Federal Court.

ANDREW CLENNELL: One Nation believes you're kicking up a stink on this because you want to run for the Liberal leadership. What do you make of that?

ANDREW HASTIE: I think that's ridiculous. Angus Taylor is the Leader. I've supported him. Judge me by my actions, and I've shown loyalty to Angus since he became Leader. I'm very happy to be his deputy. I sit in tactics with him every day. I consult regularly with him. Any suggestion otherwise is just politicking.

ANDREW CLENNELL: Alright. Well, let me play something you said to me last year about your desire to be Leader of the Liberal Party. Let's play that, guys.

*EXCERPT PLAYS*

Looks like you're getting some more practice. Do you still believe you want to be Leader of the Liberal Party?

ANDREW HASTIE: Well mate, it's nice to get up at a normal time and have a coffee before the show. But look, the leadership question was decided in January. I put my hand up. I didn't have the internal support to push forward with it, and so Angus is the Leader, and we've got to win this election. We cannot be divided.

ANDREW CLENNELL: Is there a baton in your knapsack somewhere that you can get out?

ANDREW HASTIE: I reckon every single person in the Parliament has a batten in their knapsack. Some have it buried beneath their lunchbox, some have it closer to the top.

ANDREW CLENNELL: Where's yours?

ANDREW HASTIE: Who knows? It’s somewhere in there.

ANDREW CLENNELL: What do you think of this Warren Pickering who's running for Premier in Victoria and his track record when it comes to drug use? Should he pull out of the race to become Premier?

ANDREW HASTIE: I watched Warren Pickering's press conference, and we all love a redemption story. I'm glad that he's cleaned his life up and I think for anyone who has to stand up in a press conference and talk about that stuff must be pretty hard. But in the end, I didn't see any qualifications to be the Premier of Victoria, and there was nothing in his background, that suggested that he'd be a good executive for the state of Victoria or any state. Moreover, if any of those allegations or past had been present in Jess Wilson's or Peter Malinauskas' or Roger Cook's – pick any state premier – I tell you what, it would be a different story for them.

ANDREW CLENNELL: That's what I said, I got smashed a bit for it. Anyway, if One Nation did become the main party of opposition in this country, or they actually won government, what do you think that would mean for the country?

ANDREW HASTIE: It would be interesting. I'd want to see some more coherence. I want to see a coherent philosophy from Pauline Hanson. This is my whole point from last week – I think she's revealed in the last week that she doesn't have what it takes to be prime minister of this country. When I put the pressure on her over the cartoon, she went to water on Chris Kenny's program, and she showed herself to be rattled. She then doubled down. She couldn't take responsibility for her actions, and she basically clung to childish cartoons. If she were to be prime minister, is she going to run cartoons about all her political opponents? How is she going to devote her time? Is she serious? Does she have a worldview that we can actually understand? These are all legitimate questions for One Nation. And frankly, the other thing that I'm concerned about is the vetting of candidates. The whole party centres on her. I think this is why Barnaby Joyce and I reckon David Farley are probably having buyer's remorse. They're thinking, what did I get myself into?

ANDREW CLENNELL: Does the Secret Harbour by-election results suggest to you might lose your federal seat of Canning in the current environment?

ANDREW HASTIE: It's possible – every three years, we have to apply for our jobs. But I think the real lesson out of the Secret Harbour by-election is that people in the outer metropolitan areas of this country are sick and tired of high immigration, high inflation, and lack of investment in services and infrastructure. They've got a dud deal. Many of them have bought very small homes in new developments, and they're facing negative equity as a consequence. They want a better deal, and both parties need to do a better job of talking to them.

ANDREW CLENNELL: State premiers say we need migration, including the WA premier.

ANDREW HASTIE: Sure, but we need to get control of our borders. Labor has lost control of our borders. We need to bring it right back to a manageable level. We need to increase the amount of skilled migrants we have in this country – we need to be very specific about who they are. But no one on the Coalition is arguing that migrants haven't made a great contribution to our nation. We're just saying, let's get the settings right and make it work for the Australian people.

ANDREW CLENNELL: A story appeared in The Australian yesterday that in February, Pauline Hanson attacked Anthony Albanese's mother, Maryanne, for living in public housing for decades, arguing people shouldn't stay in public housing forever. Did you see that story, and what did you make of it?

ANDREW HASTIE: Yeah, I did see that story. Again, I think this is another indicator to the Australian people that she's not fit to be prime minister. I don't think you should be talking about the late mother of anyone in this game, and certainly not reflecting on circumstances over which she had no understanding. I don't know about the Prime Minister's mother's circumstances, and I wouldn't suddenly speculate and then criticise her. I know the Prime Minister loves his mum, I love my mum, you have affection for yours. I reckon mums, you leave out of politics. I remember in the schoolyard, if anyone said anything about your mum, mate, it was on. Let's leave mums out of it.

ANDREW CLENNELL: So, what do you think of Pauline Hanson that she makes these sort of attacks?

ANDREW HASTIE: I've always been respectful of Pauline. I've tried to build a relationship with her in the past, and it's been good. And then she came for me, and I started to see that this is not the person I thought she was. Now she's my political opponent, and she has started a fight, and I intend to win it.

ANDREW CLENNELL: It's a tough business, though, isn't it? I mean, she calls you a traitor – that's arguably terrible – but you call her a lying coward, so you're not holding back either.

ANDREW HASTIE: Well, she came out, she lied about calling me a traitor, and then she showed no courage in accepting responsibility for her action. So, lying coward, they are two words that make sense here. Traitor – I didn't betray my country.

ANDREW CLENNELL: The Opposition had a fair crack at the Prime Minister last week for not declaring what he says is a $5 honorary membership to the Marrickville Golf Club, considering they got a $5 million grant off the government. What did you make of the grant? My understanding is he doesn't believe he should have to make the declaration because he doesn't declare when someone buys him a $5 beer or coffee, what do you think of that?

ANDREW HASTIE: I think you have to declare the honorary declaration, absolutely, and he would be well known to that club. He's been the member for Grayndler, I think, since 1996 – 30 years. He would have an intimate relationship with that club, so he'd know if he's an honorary member or not. It's a big amount of money.

ANDREW CLENNELL: Do you think the government should have given the grant?

ANDREW HASTIE: I think there are probity questions here, and I think there are legitimate questions for journalists to be asking about the Prime Minister's relationship to the club, his lack of transparency about his membership. He has questions to answer; we'll keep asking those questions.

ANDREW CLENNELL: Women have expressed concern to me around your comments about Priya's Bill – a Bill that allowed for women who suffered stillbirth to still receive paid parental leave. You asked in the Parliament if it applied to women who conducted late-term abortions. The implication of this was that you were suggesting some women may abort their baby late to get money. Do you see how those comments might hurt your popularity amongst women?

ANDREW HASTIE: Yeah, sure, and I had feedback from eminent Australians – I won't mention their names here – but I appreciated their feedback, and I took it seriously. But Andrew, it doesn't change my fundamental position. Before I was elected, I made it clear to the Australian public that I'm pro-life and that I have a strongly held view on that. These are matters of conscience in the Parliament. Life and death, whether it's abortion or euthanasia, are matters of conscience, and I won't resile from that. I should note as well that –

ANDREW CLENNELL: Are you concerned that women are gaming the system because that seems to be the implication?

ANDREW HASTIE: – In that speech, I also spoke about close friends who lost their baby boy who, when I walk into their living room, they have plaster casts of his hand and his feet. So, the speech I gave was weaponised against me by my opponents. But yes, I take the point that I could have been more sensitive, and I took that from former Labor ministers outside the Parliament, and I respect their position and I appreciated their feedback.

ANDREW CLENNELL: So, you regret those comments?

ANDREW HASTIE: I don't regret them, but I'm constantly learning in this game about how to better advocate in such a way that is winsome and sensitive to others. But my fundamental position on the issue of abortion is unchanged. I'm pro-life, and I'm not going to suddenly back down to win political points from people.

ANDREW CLENNELL: In your industry portfolio, what do you make of the government move to bail out the Tomago aluminium smelter?

ANDREW HASTIE: It's a bit like a doctor making you sick and then giving you a cure. What we've seen under Labor is ideological, reckless Net Zero energy policy, and it's killing heavy industry in this country. It's not just Tomago – it's Nyrstar, it's Whyalla. You talk to any of the advanced manufacturers around this country; they are struggling to stay alive because we're not internationally cost competitive. What's one of the key drivers? Energy. Labor's pursuing this green fantasy of Net Zero. The rest of the world's moving on – they're buying our coal, they're buying our gas, they're building nuclear, they're investing in small modular reactors. We're getting left behind, and our country is deindustrialising at a rate that leaves us strategically vulnerable and economically uncompetitive.

ANDREW CLENNELL: If the Reserve Bank increases interest rates in nine days' time, what do you think that will do to people generally and the economy?

ANDREW HASTIE: I think it will push people into a very hard place. People are struggling already. Real incomes have declined and flattened since COVID, so people are earning less with every dollar that they get. And I'm concerned that people will be under so much pressure with their mortgages that they'll have to sell out of their properties. The backdrop to this, of course, is Donald Trump's Iran War – which Pauline Hanson supported, I'll remind viewers – and that's caused inflationary pressure in addition to Labor's reckless spending, which is why we're here in the first place.

ANDREW CLENNELL: Bill Kelty, the former ACTU boss, was in the papers today saying real wages haven't grown and the government is misleading people on that. What did you think of that?

ANDREW HASTIE: He's absolutely right. You just get on the net and Google real wages – you get to COVID and they drop off a cliff, and they've just stayed flat for the last few years. People are feeling the pinch. Prices are rising, but their incomes are flattening or even dropping. That's why family budgets are tighter, they can't afford healthcare premiums, people are pulling kids out of private schools or low fee-paying private schools, like I have in my electorate. Seniors are under pressure – loneliness is a massive problem with our seniors, and many of them are having to curtail social activities because they just don't have the money with their pension.

ANDREW CLENNELL: Andrew Hastie, thanks so much for your time. 

ANDREW HASTIE: Thanks, Andrew.

[ENDS]